The game has changed man. I wish it was like it was before.
Back when SV was ranged, it was common for all specs to share lots of class abilities, and you’d use the more extensive talent system to specialize those abilities and become more unique.
In todays game, specs depend more on their unique skills to sell their spec fantasy, because the talent system is so lacking.
I absolutely had high hopes that the old tree style returning would help make SV more fun. But again, the SV tree is by far the worst one released so far.
They need to either make SV abilities unique or SV talents fun, and right now they picked neither.
I don’t find MSV very fun. The playstyle makes little sense if we’re using Rexxar as a model. You know. The Beastmaster… Lore aside, in PvP you play most of an encounter as ranged anyway. It has always struck me as counterinuitive.
Really, though, the biggest facepalm for me is this:
For Survival Specialization, Counter Shot talent is replaced by Muzzle: Interrupts spellcasting, preventing any spell in that school from being cast for 3 sec.
That should tell you all you need to know about why the design is a turd sammich. Admittedly, I haven’t reviewed the other class trees yet, but I’m guessing they probably don’t have a core ability that’s completely different by spec. Also, is Wing Clip melee range only, and can SV now take Conc as a ranged ability? Will Blizzard hamstring people trying to play RSV by putting illogical melee weapon requirements on ranged abilites? It’s just a real s***show of weird conditional parameters to make sure you don’t try to use a ranged weapon as SV.
Frankly, BM (lore wise) would make more sense as a dual wielding, flurry style attacker, and SV as traps, bombs, poisons, etc. with the pet as more of a distraction than the source of focus gen. That never made sense, either. I mean, there are just so many things that, for a spec that’s now years old, feel completely cobbled together and incongruent with the archetype that had been established for nearly a decade before the switch. (Please PLEASE don’t waste your time trying to make the argument OLD SV was melee. It was not, and only had abilities that facilitated your return to range. Don’t be obtuse.)
The whole point of Deflux’s post is that MM did not feel like SV and did not fill the same role in the class, while you’re trying to ignorantly dismiss that.
It’s not about MM “not being good enough”. MM is fine at representing the archetype it does. It’s just not the same thing as what ranged SV was and it’s not MM’s job to awkwardly try to perform both roles.
Rexxar is survival, but theres many others which can be used as a model. Most of them are heroes which has more than one spec or traits as Maiev being survival with night warrior powers.
The most specs are not “well represented” by heroes, we thought thralll was the best enhancement representative, but he is stronger as elemental lol
Which hero (mono spec) represents shadow priests??
which hero (mono spec) represents fury warrior?
which hero (mono spec) represents enhancement?
which hero (mono spec) represents BM?
Which hero (mono spec represents DISCIPLINE priest?
Hero representation its not that easy. Most heroes has more than one spec. I could tell you which hunters MAINLY survival over other specs.
Maiev
Huln
Vol’jin
Apata
Wuho
Wardens
Headhunters (Zandari has a lot of them)
Huntress
Lorthe’mar Threron
BIG NAMES are melee hunters, most of them has more than 1 spec but primmary spec are survival.
No, literallly only rexxar and Wuho priorizes dual wield. Yet, dual wield would be a good change for surivals, theres no reason to NOT hunt as dual wield.
Many of them aren’t even Hunters, lmao. He had Maiev and Wardens listed separately and they aren’t Hunters at all.
Every time an argument about the spec’s merits goes badly for him, which is all the time, he just starts braindumping lore characters in the thread. It’s all he knows how to talk about, and evidently not very well.
EDIT: And Wuho and Apata are just the NPCs on the Talonclaw quest XD What a joke.
Before I get in an argument about lore representation, I’m going to point out that was not the thrust of my post. MSV was poorly implemented and remains so. That said…
Maiev - glaive
Huln - 2h
Vol’jin - glaive
Apata - 2h
Wuho - DW
Wardens - glaive
Headhunters (Zandari has a lot of them) - DW axes (OLD Warcraft) or THROWN spears
Huntress - glaive
Lorthe’mar Threron - not really a hunter? I don’t know of any lore to support that claim. Uses a 1H anwyay, I think?
So anyway, if we’re using all those as examples as justification for MSV, statistically we should have no pet and a single, 1-handed glaive. The thing you’re misunderstanding is that Blizzard laid out the archetype of Hunter as being synonymous with Ranger+Pet and then just, out of the blue, decided that was no longer the case. Imagine if they just changed Outlaw to a ranged-only spec with no stealth for no reason. It would be jarring, but could be justified in the same way MSV was - DW + Stealth is just too much like the other specs.
I guess this is kind of like fanfic, right? There’s always some nerd thinking to themselves “Wouldn’t it be cool if…” and then concocting some wild story whether they should or not.
“Wouldn’t it be cool if Darth Vader could summon demon hounds?”
“Wouldn’t it be cool if Frodo used the Ring of Power to grow wings and go urinate in the Eye of Sauron?”
You can’t establish a world and then change the rules after however many years. It never made sense and never will.
Maiev is a hunter.
Maiev hunts illidan.
Maiev has a ranged poison as survival hunter.
Maiev is melee therefore survival.
I’m going to do as the other guy recommended me, which is to block you (and your alts which upvote you). This level of cancerigenous content is unbearable.
This was linked to you before and you ignored it. That’s the Warden toolkit including that on Maiev, and it plainly has nothing to do with Hunters. Come back to me when you can actually confront counterarguments. You might delude yourself into believing that argument but everyone else can see reality.
Fortunes of war
First paragraph
When Maiev Shadowsong was young, she would hunt with her mother in the woods. She had an interest in blades even before joining the [Sisterhood of Elune]
ITT: wow players reenact diogenes bringing a plucked chicken to plato after plato defined a human as a “featherless biped” and sarcastically exclaiming “behold! a man”.
funny I hated (how it played) MM when RSV was around too, so the point is RSV hunters didn’t want to play and didn’t like how MM played… and you wonder why people have a dislike of MSV… (you’re the cucumber that thinks MM played like RSV).
*also all the garbage about lore heroes is pointless the original game manual talked about hunters and ranged focus not a word about rex in the description, even it’s pets were there it said to keep targets at range…;.
I mean, just generally, it should be as follows (IMHO):
Baseline damage CD across all specs: Rapid Fire, just HASTE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
BM: Ranged, emphasis on pets and commanding woodland creatures to do your bidding. Kill Command, Murder of Crows, Stampede, Cobra shot (nature damage) stuff like that. Focus gen through pet
MM: Ranged, Emphasis on shots, big focus dumps. Aimed Shot, Chimaera Shot, Arcane Shot. Still use your pet (my preference), focus gen through Steady Shot.
SV: Ranged (or melee, I think it COULD be interchangeable with real LOLHUNTERWEAPON potential), Emphasis on Nature/Elemental damage. Bombs, Stings, Traps, etc, focus gen through Barbed Shot (makes WAY more sense as an SV ability).
SV could be really flexible if the abilites were just ranged/melee ambigious. What I mean is everyone gets Conc, everyone gets Counter Shot, Kill Shot, yada yada. Focus dump could be Explosive Shot (like the old POP POP one) or heck, build around something more like a grenadier. If ONLY white damage came from melee or ranged, you could just play it however you like. You could be a more murderous version of Macgyver.
I think a good argument for it is that Hunter is the only range physical in the game. There are tons of melee specs but now there are only 2 physical range specs.
I mean i like survival hunter and how it plays, but i still think there is not enough bow\ranger\gunner specs in wow.
Melee surv needs to go, it has been nothing but a failure since it replace the best hunter spec in the game when the legion pre patch landed, even now when it has one of the most brokenly OP tier set and legendary combo people don’t want to play it, they rather play BM and MM.
That is because hunter is a ranged class, not a melee class, the only people crying for melee surv to stay are blow in rerolls from other boring melee specs.
IDK how Bepples has the patients to reply to all the broken English liars in this thread claiming surv was not popular when it was ranged.
Bring back old surv and old spriest, legion killed the 2 best specs in the game and I fear I will never get to play them again as Cata/MoP/WoD classic are not gunna be a thing