iTs A bAd SpEc CaUsE i DoNt LiKe It
Oh god.
Theres no reason being a warrior anymore if you can just shoot arrows.
Your logic is impecable
LETs JUST MAKE A NEW RANGED SPEC, SHOOT ARROWS JUST LIKE MM⌠GREAT IDEA
2 Likes
Yes and you can see its popularity and many other patches. We can see it was popular in 3.3, 4.3, all of MoP, and WoD until 6.2 which is already about half the time it even had Explosive Shot.
- Worldofwargraphs (2013-2019)
- Warcraftlogs (Highmaul)
- Cynwise Blog (2011-2014)
- Armory Datamining (2010)
The other patches I canât find a source but it does show up a lot in kill videos of the time such as in Ulduar and Bastion of Twilight.
The thing is youâre not arguing against someone whoâs going to rationally accept the data youâre showing him. Toxiktraktor doesnât care about being honest or rational; he cares about melee Survival staying melee and heâll say whatever he thinks helps. He used to argue that Survival was ranged in classic and now he argues that it was a melee spec and his previous posts were satire just because he thinks that by convincing people that SV used to be melee it makes sense for it to be melee now.
Yes Feral and Enhancement suffer a lot of the same issues and theyâre only against 1 ranged spec + their classes have a much better identity and framework for supporting melee specs. When the starting point for Hunter is usage of a ranged weapon any deviation into melee is just nonsense.
P.S. Thatâs not an invitation to make Hunters start without a ranged weapon. As ridiculous as that sounds (and is) I have seen people suggest making Hunters a melee-first class with both BM and SV being melee and MM speccing into ranged weapons. Give melee players an inch and they will take a mile.
Warriors donât have a ranged spec in the same class. Thereâs a big difference between a respec barrier instead of a class barrier. A better comparison to look at is Feral or Enhancement. Making a melee spec share a class with a ranged spec is already extremely challenging to get right. Itâs even worse when it shares a class with 2 ranged specs and the class has ranged combat and weaponry built into its core identity. Thatâs what makes Survival nonsense. Itâs like a healing Rogue; itâs just inherently contradictory to the core identity of the class.
And Iâm not sure why you act like this is all hypothetical and we donât know how it turns out. Weâve had it for 6 years now and itâs pretty much been a dumpster fire the entire time. DF looks to be more of the same. The best defence against this from SV Hunters isnât even to deny it but rather to argue that ranged SV was similarly a dumpster fire, but evidently thatâs not true.
5 Likes
Aside from your obvious trolling, to address your concern about âwhy bring a warrior if i can just shoot arrowsâ
Warriors bring utility of their own like Rallying Cry which is shared across all their DPS specs, both of which are melee.
A Survival hunter brings no utility to a group that both of the other specs can bring. The only difference is playstyle and Range vs. Melee. Itâs pretty much an undisputed fact that melee is a more difficult role with how much they have to worry about positioning while doing damage. So if you have two specs that do similar DPS, bring the same utility, and the only real difference between them is Melee vs. Range⌠unless you just REALLY like (ignoring class flavor and focusing on pure tool kits) handicapping yourself when you could have an easier time doing the same thing from range.
1 Like
To add to this: they could add essential raid utility to SV to bribe people into playing it but that would just be bandaiding. It just shouldnât be melee. Itâs not something that makes sense with how Hunters have been built and iterated upon since the start.
3 Likes
Yes Feral and Enhancement suffer a lot of the same issues and theyâre only against 1 ranged spec + their classes have a much better identity and framework for supporting melee specs. When the starting point for Hunter is usage of a ranged weapon any deviation into melee is just nonsense.
I agree. Players have every since Legion have complained about borrowed power mechanics, having something you already have taken away from you, and theyâre gone and done that with Survival. We used to be range and then having it taken away to be replaced with a spear no one wanted.
Melee BM sounds like an interesting concept. I feel like it might work but I worry about melee clutter with having you, 2 pets, and (if speced) dire beast(s) all from ONE player being extraordinarily cumbersome. RIP the Rexar fantasy lol
Iâm scared of them adding some sort of raid utility JUST to get people to play it. Itâll feel forced and players will see right through it.
Well they already just gave it spectacular overtuning in SL right now to bribe people to play it so it would be more of that.
Seems like you just came back after a long hiatus so hereâs the summary: they brought back tier sets and gave SV something crazily overtuned. It gives them frequent resets of Wildfire Bomb with a +80% damage modifier. Also WFB is one of the only uncapped AoEs in the game; everyone else in SL either got hard capped at 5-8 targets like MM or square root capped in 9.1.5 like BM (that means the damage starts dropping off after 5-8 targets or so).
Itâs painfully obvious that itâs triage to try to make SV work. It has actually got a lot of people playing it but complaints about the playstyle and degenerate nature of it are rife.
1 Like
and thatâs what it will take to get just 17.6% of hunters to play it lol.
(reference: wowleaderboards)
wont let me include links
Yep when ranged SV had this sort of tuning advantage (which Iâm not sure it ever really did, but when it had a clear advantage over the other Hunter specs at least) it would easily become the most popular Hunter spec by far and sometimes even the most popular spec in the game, while now Hunters still look for excuses not to play it.
To include links without a higher trust level you can surround it in `backquotes` to make it a code block like so:
www.google.com
Like I donât hate the spec, it plays fairly good and is fine. It just isnât a Hunter spec. With the Wildfire Bombs, it should be a Tinker spec with a mechanical pet. You can re-flavor Mongoose Bite into like a âSupercharged Mecha-Glaiveâ or something. Grapple makes more sense with a mech suite or tech equipment. AotE throws Fâin LASER SLASHES at the target. I am literally thinking this up as I type this. That makes more sense to me imo
Half of them hate it just because the ranged hunter specs are also poorly designed
In principle nothing is necessarily wrong with SV being melee they just hate that MM is terribly designed and ranged SV was also fun and gone but lol thatâs just the class as a whole being jank nothing really to do with SV itself being melee and just entirely with ranged hunter also being terrible to play
4 Likes
It was popular during certain tiers or fights. Most popular hunter spec are MM and BM. Now when it was ranged it was more popular then melee hunter. But that is a totally different thing.
Popularity of SV hunter when it was ranged was depended on tier sets, gear and overall performance. Still in my experience I saw more BM hunters and MM hunters. I played SV hunter and I should know. Unless you think like certain individuals here about a different game that has survival hunter.
Pvp is different story. Itâs was well represented when it was ranged as well itâs well represent since legion.
Gave them something thatâs potential only in fights that have more than one target. Reason SV is now popular in M+ and mostly in Anduin fight.
Yeah this ainât it. Iâm fine with the BFA models of BM and MM. They have their issues but nothing fundamentally wrong. SV, on the other hand, is fundamentally flawed and it is mostly on account of being a melee spec.
Your experience is likely not real and made up for clout. You didnât even originally post here on your Hunter. You used to post on your Warrior and brag about your DPS as if you didnât only have a handful of grey parses on your parked alt Hunter.
6 Likes
Yea your experience is base on what? Few links to videos and favorite streamers who have similar contradicted opinion. You made yourself officially troll of hunter forums and any social media. You are so obsessed with me that it makes me feel special. Keep up buddy with that
Literally you said word for word. And itâs not even majority. Itâs one guys with few alts complaining and trying to be wise a$$. His statements of popularity are copy paste of comments just in his words. On EU servers there isnât even a such discussion like here about SV because they donât have Bepples boy to give them some Australian or New Zealand BS. And even in EU there is only few streamers that donât play WoW anymore but have âsolid opinionâ on classes.
1 Like
TRUE
just give us back MoP MM blizzard
Hello angry! 
Your jokes are funny 
Have some 
Oh, and Rexxar says hi to his favorite tinker because Goblins being Hunters is such a niche concept. 
1 Like
just ignore him, heâs just a broken record
âmelee isâŚle bad!â
âranged survival hunter isâŚle good!â ad nauseum. he contributes nothing to the discussion and is just like a goat that wonât stop bleating
3 Likes
Oh I have for the most part. I had argued with him before about Hunters being able to melee in Vanilla. He swore up and down that never happened and that Hunters never used their melee abilities. Then BAM classic was released and everything people used to do, they were creating videos with the old builds and posting them. 
He has been on a crusade since Legion about this and itâs one hyperbole comment after another with him.
Itâs becoming comical now with him and itâs almost like having a friend named Patrick from Spongebob that you tune into to see what heâll say next, itâs funny. 
Take care friend!
1 Like
My experience is from actually playing it back then.
Me playing Survival when it was the most represented spec in the game, not just Hunters.
Proof:
Parse counts in the week of January 15 (when the video was uploaded):
- Beast Mastery: 1,078
- Marksmanship: 7,282
- Survival: 23,995
- Frost Mage (2nd highest): 18,324
The sentiment has been held by major WoW personalities. Hereâs what Preach thinks of Survival:
And the recent Liquid Max stream:
Donât pretend itâs just a handful of people.
Also donât try to call out other people on the forums for using alts given your history.
See the other thread where you said this. Because itâs false. The SV discussion comes up a lot over there.
5 Likes