Lol no. Ff14 timegate puts wow to shame. DF release has more content than ff14 has released including their 3rd patch coming this month and endwalker has been out over a year
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came here to say something along these lines.
raid/m+ isnât fun because of the content itself.
its fun because its something collaborative to do while hanging out with friend in voice.
I honestly suspect that the -real- issue with a lot of these âpve is bad for xyz reasonsâ posts, is that they arenât having fun with the people they are playing with.
and i get that, iâve dipped from a few guilds cuz I just wasnât vibing with the people, but these people donât seem to -want- to socialize, and so they wind up missing the entire point.
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Yeah no, it all comes down to skill for unpredictability then.
You play against enough crappy PVPâers and you see them all play the same predictable manner. Popping defensives early, blowing their cooldowns the moment they see you etc. It isnât âDifFerENT ExPeRIENce!â each time, perhaps in the harder brackets with people who know what theyâre actually doing. Still doesnât detract from the fact PVP has been the same crap since the game launched, barely any new dungeons or arenas.
Meanwhile PVE you have a new dungeon pool every season causing you to learn new mechanics as well as adapt to the ever-changing atmosphere of weekly affixes and seasonal and player compositions along with the different player experience. Thereâs no argument that mythic plus has way more variety, plus the rising key system that causes you to play differently due to a damage threshold waaaay more punishing than PVP could ever replicate (unless youâre getting one-shot with no gear).
Only time I felt PVP was exciting and unpredictable in recent years was World PVP. Otherwise itâs the same crap âLumbermillâŠâ blah blah blah, same strats. If itâs casual players they arenât that unpredictable. I personally have way more varied experiences in mythic plus.
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i thought they unloaded their entire expac up front though is what im saying instead of like how WoW time gates their expac into bigger patches and slowly releases the content?
Yes WoW has more content but that wasnât what i was talking about.
arnt all RPG games just doing the same thing over and over to see bigger numbers when you reach the end game?
Unless you are playing a single-player game and not touching it anymore after the story in most situations you are going to be on a repetitive grind just to get slightly better items to do slightly harder things.
Yes, you can not predict what people are going to do vs programmed mechanics.
Players are not NPCâs.
If you personally donât like PVP thatâs fine, but lets not pretend facing a player is the same as facing a computer.
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Yeah but affixes are not programmed to run the same way every time. Thundering etc can happen at completely random moments that dramatically change the circumstance youâre in. So you have unpredictable mechanics incorporated with scripted bosses with extremely already punishing mechanics with again a damage threshold waaaay higher than anything youâll find in PVP. So no, still way more varied and unpredictable than same crappy paladins spamming JB and their bubble early.
Really? Because it just feels like Havoc DHs and Fury Warriors around every corner
It has a lot to do with balance and niche.
You canât play a fantasy when fairness is strictly enforced.
Dono what to tell ya mate, im just not buying NPCâs can be programmed more unpredictably then people.
Unpredictably bad is not better though. I maye be misunderstanding the point.
Well, its not really about better or worse which I guess I should have been more clear about
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Thatâs fair.
Think of it this way⊠PvE encounters are designed to be challenging but overcome. PvP encounters are designed to be as one-sided as possible.
If the same principles were applied to PvE as PvP, people would quit outright because it would be, and Iâm quoting a certain game director here, âmathematically impossibleâ.
Because wow/mmo pvp is so much more in depth and harder to balance than other types of pvp games (Think League of Legends, with 20 abilities per character). The skill floor and ceiling is enormous. Players get discouraged when they get stomped 10x in a row in arenas. Then they never come back.
The mmr in arenas is very unforgiving, theres little to no rewards for the low ratings.
Most people that dont fully understand each class and spec are oblivious what is going on in pvp. You canât install an addon that tells you where to stand, and what is about to happen to you at a scripted time.
Majority of mmo players are casual, or have guidance from a guild or raid leader, pvp you must know how to make plays on your own.
This list could go on and on, but long story short, wow Arena is very unforgiving, and years of experience is required for high rating.
Pve youâre cooperating with players to defeat a common enemy which never changes, pvp youâre facing a constantly changing enemy. Even if the class is the same, the enemy dynamic is never the same
Itâs not for everyone and thatâs fine, but pvp definitely has more innate replayability due to the human adversary element. More players spam pvp games like CoD/LoL/valorant etc even though its the same map (leagueâs rift hasnt changed since 2010 except in winter it gets a snowy reskin) than replay the same single player campaign 20 times. I think the most iâve done is complete FF13 on new game+ 6 times and then i was tired of it, meanwhile iâve done upwards of 8000 bgs since tbc? 
Edit: correction, most iâve done is an ungodly amount of diablo 3âs campaign before exploration was automatically unlocked but that was definitely not done because i wanted to
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Lol and here I am who got bored of PVP in WoW years ago due to how predictable and bland it became with no new content. Imho with seasonal affixes introduced to dungeons it added a whole layer of unpredictability and high pace to the gameplay because affixes arenât scripted and can completely change an encounter the higher you climb. You people really gotta introduce me to these completely unpredictable PVPâers you come across because majority of the ones Iâve seen play extremely predictable with their toolkits. Pallyâs who try to catch me in a stun and then pop their wings. Pallys who use their bubble the moment theyâre close to death. Rogues who catch me in a stun and blow all their CDâs and pop evasion when theyâre close to death etc. Idk, to me itâs all fairly standard until you get to the higher ratings. Granted Iâve not really played hardcore PVP for years.
And yet, scripting improves peopleâs capacity to play those same games.
An odd paradox.
And I immediately thought of tic tac toe.
Thereâs a human adversary element, but most of the mastery is done when you realize the heuristic of controlling the corners and center.
A lot of the professional circuit gets in fast, gains advantage fast (game economy is rich get richer), and then rating inflation pump at the end of a cycle to maximize gain.
Itâs a program of its own.
Na they unload the entire main story upfront. During that you will do 5 dungeons and 3 trials. The dungeons are pretty much 1 time runs unless you get then doing the daily roulette or you spam them to lvl up alt jobs. Only 1 of the trials has a max level challenging version to start then they will release a max level version of the other 2 later down the line. Trials are just 1 boss also. There also 2 max level dungeons to open but they are just there to add variety to their âexpertâ roulette which are max level dungeons, but they are easy where you can just cruise control through them while watching Netflix or something. The roulettes you only really run once a day for the daily bonus. And by max level dungeons I mean that you wonât be scaled down in level and lose abilities when running them, lower level dungeons donât scale up to max level, you scale down unless you pre-form a party and turn the scaling off but then they will pose even less of a challenge than they already do, and nobody does this anyways for dungeons. Then 3 weeks later they released their 8 man raid which is 4 bosses then hard versions a week after that. Then a couple months later they will release a 24 man raid with 4 bosses which are a once per week catch-up gear loot pinatas. Then a couple months after that they will release a major patch which will include about an hour of story, 1 dungeon that replaces the old expert roulette dungeons and 1 trial with a hard mode.
And from then on out thatâs pretty much their patch cycle. They will have small minor patches that add some cosmetic thing or some time sink system in between. In endwalker they added island sanctuary which you basically farm resource node while watching Netflix to build buildings then you get workers that make stuff with resources you farmed and give you currency to buy stuff. You can go there every day and farm a little to start workorders or you can spend a couple hours farming weeks worth of workorders and just wait for them to complete. It took me about 2 weeks to make every building and itâs been on auto pilot ever since. It took about a month to buy all the rewards. So far in the game, the content to do is 1 25 man raid which is irrelevant as far as gear level goes and takes 20 min to clear unless you want the appearances, 8 raid bosses where only 4 are current and challenging and 4 trials where only 1 is current and challenging but really only at the patch release cuz of gear. And gearing is not alt job friendly, it will take 8 weeks to get 1 job full bis if you can full clear the hardest content every week. The game is not alt character friendly, you have to play through about 120 hrs of the story to lvl a new alt or pay a skip for each expansion. Xmog in the game looks good but is space limited, you have to have the gear in a certain inventory to use itâs appearance and thereâs only 800 spaces, thereâs a ton of gear in appearances in the game. They say they canât do a system like wows cuz of code but itâs really because you can pay extra sub fees for more inventory space.
But the game is designed to be quit when you get what you want from a patch cycle so I donât fault them for that, but a lot of the player base is starting to want more repeatable content especially those that got lucky and weâre able to get a house since you have to maintain your sub to keep your house
Itâs not about the scripted abilities, itâs about the thrill of defeating another human player. Pvp is very scripted, but the human youâre defeating changes. Even if they press their rotation in the same order, the combat is not the same. Look at CoD which has no ability and the same guns- itâs the human element
Once youâve defeated the AI npc youâve defeated it, and once you have no more upgrades to get from it then the playerbase gets significantly smaller for those who continue to push as high as they can get for no reward other than personal satisfaction
I think m+ and diablo rifts were a good way to help replayability in pve, but pve was always designed as a means to an end to get gear and then have âbeatenâ the game. Pvp doesnât really have an end
Most of the bgs have been the same since the beginning of time too. Where as dungeons/raids/pve environments change by the patch/xpac