Why people do not PVP in wow. A comprehensive post

I would like to discuss the primary reasons why people do not PVP in wow, covering all forms of PVP whether they are BGs, Arena, or world PVP and both rated and casual PVP content. To start, there are three primary reasons why people do not enjoy PVP in wow, listing them from least to most important:

  • Wow base UI is bad and makes PVP difficult to understand.
  • The new player experience for PVP is very unfair to new players.
  • Healers simultaneously are unenjoyable to play for most players and make games less enjoyable by prolonging games.

Lets cover each of these main points in detail.

Wow UI Problems

I hear people often say that wow PVP is complicated and difficult for new players to understand, but it really isn’t. Once you understand your basic DPS rotation, it is just a matter of learning what your other buttons do before you have a basic level of understanding on how to play your class. Don’t get me wrong, you well not perform will with this level of knowledge in ranked, but you can certainly play the game as long as you know what your buttons do. What makes wow PVP difficult to understand is that wows base UI does not give you nearly enough information in PVP, where addons are all but mandatory to play even casual games. If you were a new player, the game tells you nothing about things like diminishing returns or CC schools. And there is barely any indication for half of the major abilities and stuns.

Most players will not be able to see a dazed symbol above the players ahead to indicate they are being stunned. Wow PVP UI should be overhauled; simplify CC and other key abilities whenever possible; replace cheap shot with a generic “stun” and psychic scream with generic “fear” as examples, make these effects much more salient so you can look at a player and immediately understand what effects they are under. This will also have the second benefit of making wow PVP content much easier for viewers to understand.

The New Player Experience

Suppose a new player decides to PVP while leveling. They queue into a BG at level 23, only to get destroyed by someone smurfing at max level in the best gear, and that new player now has 0 interest in ever trying again. Alternatively, they play against a class like hunter that is broken in low level battlegrounds and get two shot over and over again. The biggest culprit for the lack of PVP engagement is how bad the new player experience is. There is no reason why max level players should be able to queue in levelings and there is no reason why some attempts aren’t made to balance low level battlegrounds. Blizzard obviously doesn’t need to spend as much time balancing lower level PVP compared to max level, but they should ensure there is nothing utterly broken in those brackets. Max level casual PVP is also in a bad state, with premade lobbies stomping people who are either gearing or in PVE gear, discouraging people from trying PVP again. To address this issue, Blizzard should make unrated BGB the baseline casual experience for all players, both max and low level brackets. This ensures premades cannot grief new players, while leveing regular random battlegrounds as an option for groups. Addressing these issues will encourage newer players to get into PVP.

Healers in PVP

I consider this to be the single largest problem for Wow PVP. We can talk about UI issues or casual BG balance, but what about the PVP content itself? The fundamental issue with wow PVP is that healers make the game antithetical to traditional PVP experiences while also being miserable to play for most players. Consider this, in most PVP games, people enjoy racking up a lot of kills; games like COD, LOL, etc., you are expected to get many kills throughout the entire game. In most wow arenas, you get a single meaningful kill and in wow BGB, you are lucky to get double digit kills in a 10+ minute game. You often spends minutes at a time trying to kill someone while their HP bar doesn’t or barely moves, waiting for dampening to take enough of an effect before someone finally folds. Or in BGB, you often choose just to run towards a different objective in hopes that there isn’t a healer stalling. This type of gameplay is boring for most people who enjoy PVP across different games; no one wants to spend 3+ minutes before they land a kill. There is an equivalent issue in BGB where teamfights tend to either stagnate, or there is a clear healer diff and one team never dies; neither of which are enjoyable experiences. Bad players will have little chance of killing a bad healer because they do not know how to chain CC a healer, making the experience unenjoyable for casual/bad players, while good players know how to coordinate a go, making the experience miserable for healers.

On the other side, playing healer is not considered enjoyable to most players for several reasons, such as being the primary target of CC, making it frustrating to watch your teammates die and then get blamed because they wouldn’t bother kicking the cyclone. Or the fact that healers in solo shuffles often go 3-3 because DPS have more carry power, causing their rating to be stuck for longer periods of times. This has led to healers having instant queues while DPS have to wait 15+ minutes to get a match for both solo shuffle and BGB. Bandaid fixes for this problem involved making healers stronger, which in turn means that blizzard had to buff DPS burst damage to be able to kill through a healer in a proper Go, which in turn makes it so non burst cycles do next to no damage while burst can global someone, making for an unenjoyable experience. Balancing around healers and 3v3 has made other casual PVP content worse. The solution to these problems is to move away from healers in PVP content; deprioritize them in content going forward.

For solo shuffle, prioritize a 2v2 solo shuffle mode with DPS only and begin balancing around this mode. Up base kit damage, lower burst damage for all DPS as they no longer need to play around healers. This will give DPS players a faster alternative to 3v3 solo shuffle with quick kills rather than long drawn out fights. For BGB, change which roles are needed. Make it so a BGB round can start with any of the following symmetrical role compositions: 6-8 DPS, 0-2 Healers, 0-1 tank. This will both speed up queues and make BGB less healer dependent and in turn make classes feel strong; because they will be able to earn kills more easily, this will increase the kill count in BGB modes, making the mode feel closer to a traditional PVP experience.

22 Likes

I’ll give you my reason:

CC Sucks.
That’s it.
That’s the whole reason.

Every single MMORPG and every single Hero/Champion/Character based game (including games like Overwatch but also any MOBA and many BRs) starts out reasonable, and then slowly adds more and more CC effects over time as they add new classes/characters and rework older ones, until eventually almost all of the skill expression comes from how and when you decide the opponent doesn’t get to play the game.

That’s not fun.

At all.

Slap me in a proper FPS lobby and I’m happy to PvP.
But god, never in a game like this. It’s awful.

51 Likes

I believe excessive CC is a symptom of healers being too strong. Because the only way to win a fight against a healer is to CC them and then kill their partner, whether that is BGB, arena, or world PVP. If CC is bad with healers in their current state, every game would go to dampening or no one would die in BGB. CC and burst could be nerfed if healers were not a major factor of serious wow PVP.

8 Likes

We’ve become watered down as people and competition is too much for most people, probably can’t handle the pressure or don’t enjoy being, “competetive” more than likely.

2 Likes

Interesting. Telling me why I don’t PvP… and none of those reasons are why I don’t PvP. lol

29 Likes

New players still join games like league of legend despite that game being far sweatier than wow PVP ever could hope to be. Its not an issue with competition, it is an issue with design.

12 Likes

That is where we disagree.

I believe it’s mostly competition that scares people off in WOW.

4 Likes

There are so many obvious reasons PvP is horrible in this game, and somehow, you didn’t touch on any of them. lol

But just to be constructive, I’ll give you one that I bet most people wouldn’t think of, but I’ve made posts about it a couple times over the years.

BAG SPACE.

I Raid (heroic and dabble in Mythic) and M+ (just enough for portals). I not only have my PvE gear, but I have variations on that gear to maximize the content I play. It takes up quite a bit of space.

I have about half of a set of Conquest gear for when I decide to torture myself and work on PvP Achvs. And although I have something like 7000 Conq ready to spend… where am I going to put MORE GEAR??? I literally don’t have the space for it.

So whatever, you wanna farm me while I’m doing the PvP daily… so be it. There are some Alliance n00bs in PvE greens I’ll get some kills on. I really don’t care. PvP is so flipping bad in this game, it’s not like I would take it any more seriously if I had the bag space. lol

It would just be nice to feel I was making a solid effort.

6 Likes

It also takes far too much time to get into and get good in pvp.

8 Likes

I don’t PvP at all. Not a competitive person.

3 Likes

My hands-down biggest gripe about PvP is when you’re in a lower level BG and wind up playing against downscaled chars who one hit kill you every time, making the experience pointless.

8 Likes

i have zero trouble understanding it.

Yep low level bg’s can be cray. Even level capped ones can be stacked since gear in PvP isn’t equalized like in FFXIV.

You can only speak for yourself, not most players.

9 Likes

PVP is harder at higher level, you are not fighting AI that can be studied and will repeat the same actions at certain mins or sec every time that you can make a script. It requires fast reaction and deep knowledge of every spec and class, most ppl are causal. PVP > PVE

9 Likes

PvP has gotten too complex. :slight_smile:

I remember starting in BC and thinking it was tough managing all those hots and dots. Ah good times.

6 Likes

For me its just not something I enjoy unless if a group of friends wants to do it then I will probably tag along. They can do all the redesigns and rework in the world but fundamentally there will always be people you cant capture other than a few one off situations

3 Likes

Not sure what else to say beside that it is terrible. I really dislike the idea of these short 10-15 minute fights in a battleground or arena in general, it’s just boring.

3 Likes

Im going by the very long DPS queues people get in PVP while healers have no wait time at all. Its a clear sign of a problem with the role. Simultaneously, the role makes the game less enjoyable for the DPS as well.

2 Likes

UI would benefit from a few things like DR trackers and maybe like nameplate auras.

Healing pvp is sort of like healing/tanking pve in that it’s fun if you’ve got a group that’ll work with you.

2 Likes

Most PvP player here are mostly PvE player first who just happen to not mind the PvP content, and the % would naturally be low. If its the other way around, or PvP WoW is separate out to a standalone without all those progression and PvE etc, it would probably attract more natural PvP players like those plays Leagues.

3 Likes

How much stuff are you carrying with you at all times?? I have 134 slots filled of the 164 available bag-slots and I carry raid supplies (cauldrons, vantus runes, feasts) 2 different stacks of personal foods, 200 raid flasks, pvp flasks, oils, 5 different potions, Reeves, Jeeves, Jumper cables, teleport cloak, teleport ring, pylons, drums, gear for my WW spec, and various other stuff. I only ever come close to filling my bag when im chain running old content for mog. It’s so weird that people dont have bag space. 20 slot backpack, 4x 36 slot bags, and 38 slot reagent bag

3 Likes