There’s a massive difference between teams with no healers a teams with 2 healers, regardless of the rest of the composition.
Yes, for sure the team with the perfect comp has a composition advantage over another team that has the same numbers of players in each role, but that’s much less significant than having healers vs not.
Premades should only ever face premades. Its really that simple and if you disagree then you most likely abuse the system and farm solo queuers for easy wins.
But it does do something. In fact, it gives players agency in the sense that they are rewarded for queuing and competing as a solo- they have agency and are invested in the outcomes of those games-- as opposed to it being a gamemode with a high chance of being a waste of time or where players are actually rewarded for giving up their agency and afking to get the match over with because they’re up against a full premade.
For what it’s worth I do actually think you should just have “agency” and take some responsibility for forming a full 10m premade IF things continue as is with no changes. That meta, however, just may mean that queues are overall longer and that an entire gamemode known as random solo bg’s has somewhat died.
It’s not that I so much mind forming premades, so much as I would MISS the viability of also being able to solo q and do random BG’s and still have them be a worthwhile use of time and investment.
Meh. Just ban solo queuing. Or make solo queues not give any honor or rep.
Forcing premades to play premades is the answer and you’ll figure out super quickly that most of them suck and only want to farm pugs so they’ll go back to solo queue as well.
Haha well that’s an idea at least.
I mean it wouldn’t be the end of the world if the meta just becomes strictly premades.
But I think the best game design is where people are overall rewarded and engaged when playing and COMPETING, and right now we have a meta where people are rewarded for steamrolling as premades (hardly competitive), but then they are wasting a lot of their time should they try to play and compete as solo queuers.
I mean, I agree, but at the same time I’m trying to think about the direction they went with Retail vs what we have in Classic, what the trade-offs are of each, and what the people who are complaining are actually asking for.
So, for example in Retail they have changed the reward system so that it’s tiers. You get your normal rewards from Rated BGs, and you get worse things from unrated. They are now looking at solo queue Rated BGs, so it’s like there’s always been this group of people who want to solo queue into rated content…
Now, whenever I’ve queued BGs solo, which has been fairly often (ish). I’ve found that I have an overall pretty decent experience. There will be a roughly 1-2 matches of 10 where the other team is a well-formed premade that crushes our team. I’ve had times in the past (not in SoD, yet) where I’ve been able to get a quick cap and/or encourage our team, even with naysayers to actually try, and have won against the odds.
I really dislike people who throw, and that happens in either premades or non these days, where people are just queueing for rewards, not because they actually enjoy the game. I wish they would just stop playing, to be honest because it’s poor sportsmanship and not my preference, but I’ve stopped reporting them, because that seems to be how the current playerbase wants to play.
Anyway, I think things are fine the way they are now, but if changes were to be made, they would likely require some sort of moderation oversight. Like if people select roles and the matchmaking system queues teams with 2 healers and 1 flag carrier, then there are going to have to be penalties for abusing the system.
I’d propose having account bans with monetary fines for reopening the account. Players can either reroll or pay the fees, and that will potentially offset the costs of having human oversight for false reporting or refusing to play the role selected.
But yeah, I’d prefer that they made BGs require full 10-man parties than they limit the max-size to 1-5, personally.
Most people who are queing BGs are not playing for the fun of the game.
They are farming rep and ranks for gear they don’t even want to pvp with.
This is why I don’t want the bg catered to these throwers. People who enjoy the BG don’t even say anything or complain
I mean if want to compare to retail, then what we’ve got now in SoD is what’s truly lazy and does not reward actually engaging in competitive gameplay or combat.
If the 5 man thing is so contrary to the spirit to classic, then what about just broadly prioritizing matching premades versus other premades? But not EXCLUSIVELY matching premades to premades-- so as to avoid increasing queue times.
The fact that premade advocates don’t want the above seems to betray an affinity for ease and lack of competition, hardly worthy of rewards or in the spirit of classic.
AFAIK, this is exactly what we do have. But I couldn’t be bothered to try to find the posts from whenever it was implemented years ago in Classic when people started talking about all this stuff (again).
This is false and you have zero evidence to support the claim.
I play this game to fight other premades and am apart of a fairy large circle of these like minded folk.
Personally I wish they would just not do anything to normal BGs and just add RBGs. Then they don’t even have to add insane gear from it. It can just be a title or mount or something that doesn’t put players at a gear advantage over regular r14 stuff
There’s no reason to do anything to regular BGs because there is no competitive element tied to it like arena rating in wrath
The easiest solution would be to have solo bg queue and premade queue. Premade queue can get more honor or something.
I’d wager still there would be very few premades queueing. It’s the same thing as the twink situation on wrath. If they forced twinks to play against other twinks it would die in a week.
There is a twink wargames community where the sole purpose is for stacked teams to play each other.
It’s not a one sided coin
Haha well the fact that most people reply “git gud” or “just form a premade” without any alternative propositions when someone proposes any change at all regarding premades is my ancedotal and totally uncited evidence.
Credit to you though in that your idea, where there is a bracket with enticing rewards, might actually make a positive difference; premades would be drawn away from the solo queue to some extent and let some oxygen into the gamemode.
Yeah. Personally, I don’t like Retail much, and one way to describe why is because it feels very much like a single-player game.
Classic very much feels like an RPG that’s also interactive with other people. I’m not an advocate for anything in Classic that makes it easier to solo. I personally feel that that is both antithetical to an MMO, and that it removes part of the RP element that Classic retains, while Retail has lost.
You can say all you want. The data is already there though. Blizzard did the same thing 15 year ago and the twink queues died basically over night. Twinks don’t want to play against other twinks. Premades don’t want to play against other premades. There probably is a slim minority that actually do, the majority don’t.
We don’t entertain your proposal because you don’t realize what it is you’re asking for
Premade only ques into premade
How does a 7 man premade q into another 7 man premade in a 10 man bg?
Do you further influence the q into multiple bottlenecks by making 7 mans require another 7 man AND a 3 man?
What if no 3 mans are queing
You solo queue or you group queue.
It’s not that difficult to understand.
A 2 man is not a premade
Why are you so desperate to be separated from even a 2-3 man?
It just sounds pitiful
You can’t read.
Solo queue or group queue.