Why Is Striving For Exellence Looked Down Upon In GD?

[Tinyblast-korialstrasz (Tinyblast)]

Here’s the thing: I really doubt these are top players.

It depends on what you mean by top players. I doubt if Method players or someone like Sodapoppin or Dillon are but you get below them and there definitely are some like that. Now I am not saying they all are but you still get ones that are.

[Spiçy-area-52 (Spiçy)]

I mean if theres some proof ill gladly tip my hat and agree. Trying to find it but im pretty sure they said it was always intended to be a 385 and was only a 415 for PTR

[Absentiá-maelstrom]

A big reason that sort of sentiment exists is that very few of us have been to the top of the mountain in WoW or anywhere really…so it’s hard to imagine how much time and work goes into it. A lot of the high end practices seem like a waste of time to a lot of people who play the game for funsies. They just don’t get it.

Tiers made gear obsolete back in Wrath too, I know, a lot slower, but it still happened, but even so, guilds like mine pushed heroic modes for the extra 10 ilvls. Now that seems insignificant and maybe it did then too, but it’s just how some people play the game. Nothing wrong with that. Also nothing wrong with how I’m playing now. You are the one who pays the sub fee, play as you wish.

[Rokujuro-eitrigg (Rokujuro)]

“They Said” is very seldom evidence a prudent man accepts at face value. Fact: There was mass whining about the weapon by “the elite”. Fact: Right up to the release of 8.2 people expected the upgrade, no mention by “they” that it would not happen. Fact: The weapon was downgraded. Fact: The “we meant to do that” option was deployed. A pretty package.

[Meritha-thrall (Meritha)]

Correlation =/= Causation

[Spiçy-area-52 (Spiçy)]

@Kaivax

I can confirm that there was a bug in the PTR that was causing this reward to generate at an unintentionally high item level, and the bug was finally fixed just before the content update went live.

So you’re seeing the intended power of the reward, and it should be consistent with other rewards that come from similar activities.

There it is. Straight from the blues mouth. It was a bug. So not anything to do with the players

[Meritha-thrall (Meritha)]

Clearly they were just lying to protect the elitists.

/s

[Hamstar-draktharon (Hamstar)]

I feel you OP. I also wanna be the very best, like no one ever was. To buy them on the Blizzard store is my real test, to use a single battle stone to raise them to level 25 is my cause.

[Grøm-altar-of-storms]

Now I am not saying they all are but you still get ones that are.

I agree on the point that there are jerks at all levels of play.

By denying (or advocating the denial) to anyone who is not “one of them” access to vital (for us, not you) portions of the game (loot upgrades, LFR,). One example was the whiny storm of GD posts that got the 415 weapon at the introduction of 8.2 reduced to a less than useless 385. That was just one successful example. If I need to spell it out for you, the “Queen” is the loot, and “LFR” is the four missing squares of the Chess board. Clear enough for you?

So, underneath your poorly formulated sarcasm, there is an understandable point-of-view, albeit one based on a poor apprehension of the facts.

1. There is a difference between disliking a system, and disliking the players who participate in that system. Disliking LFR and Titanforging is not necessarily an attack on you, or people like you.
2. Many of the reasons why people dislike the two systems is because people think they are key pieces of their experience, when they are not.

Let’s take LFR as an example (NOTE: I don’t consider myself an elite player, but I can give a sample arguement):

One of the issues I have with LFR is that people think it’s raiding, when it isn’t. People who only do LFR think that raiding is what happens between the pull timer and the boss hitting the ground; thus, they think that LFR is just the easiest version of the raid.

In reality, what you experience was just the fight (and even then, you didn’t actually experience it, as difficulty is an intrinsic part of the experience…). In reality, raiding is the process of forming groups, gearing groups, preparing the group for the raid (reading up on fights, making potions, etc), forming strategies, fighting the boss, wiping, reforming strategies, killing the boss, and dividing loot.

THIS WHOLE PROCESS IS RAIDING. EVERY RAIDER, EVEN PUGS, GO THROUGH SOME VERSION OF THIS PROCESS.

But this isn’t the “why LFR is bad” thread… this is the “why hate on players who strive thread”.

And more to your point, there are real, legitimate reasons why certain players dislike certain things… and when they do so, it isn’t to “deny” other players anything.

[Grøm-altar-of-storms]

To buy them on the Blizzard store is my real test, to use a single battle stone to raise them to level 25 is my cause.

Earned a lol.

[Breakbeat-kilrogg (Breakbeat)]

What’s wrong with wanting to be good at something you enjoy doing with your spare time?

Nothing.

The reactions are a result of jealousy, primarily. Envy. Feelings of guilt or of being inadequate in something another person has clearly mastered.

It’s really like anything in life. If you’re smart and you use your intellect to its full capability, people will say you’re condescending. If you’re athletic and you use that to its full capability, you’re a showoff.

Get good grades and you’re a “nerd” or “tryhard.”

Make a lot of money and you’re “greedy” or “the 1%.”

There will always be naysayers in life. It’s certainly not limited to games.

[Valiane-stormrage]

If you are playing the game true to your own abilities, values and goals, and maintain respect for players with differing abilities, values and goals, the vast majority are not going to have any issues.

If however you try to project your own abilities, values and goals on others, and especially if you belittle or denigrate their choices and / or draw negative comparisons, expect push back.

Of course there are the types that simply resent others’ success for reasons all their own, best to just ignore them and move on.

[Redhound-thrall]

Again, you are reading what you want into what I wrote.

“People” doesn’t necessitate “everyone”.

It’s almost like you started with an opinion… and were looking to justify it…

You are right. I let my emotions get the best of me.

I’ve been on these forums a long time and I have seen so many of the actual toxic elitist types that I will lump most who hold similar opinions in with them.

Subjects like this make people emotional and combative. Nobody like to be put down and I became emotional and I let what you said and the way you said it get to me and I lashed out and put you down.

I think the problem is that when emotions are high too few people know how to effectively communicate. And you are a bit guilty of this too. Most of your responses here are worded in such a way that they read like you are intentionally pushing to get the response that I gave you. Even if that wasn’t your intent.

If you can’t accomplish what another person accomplishes, disdain it. Ridicule their achievements, thereby ridiculing them.

In other words, if you can’t have… hate.

This is your first post here. This is what started to set me off. What you say here is completely valid and true. There are those who feel that way and lash out for that reason. It’s not really what you said that started to set me off, it’s the way you said it.

Your post here is very charged. It’s simple and it packs a punch. It’s also worded in such a way that it will set off anyone who may not hold the same views as you. I read into your statement what I wanted but your statement was made in such a way that it looks designed to elicit that sort of emotional response.

They get called that when they use it as a bludgeon to look down upon and beat anyone they don’t deem worthy into a bloody pile.

This isn’t a thing.

Your second post.

Now this one is just being combative. I don’t know if you honestly believe that Verheinen’s point just doesn’t exist or if you are just needling him to get a response. There are people who do use it as a bludgeon to look down on others, just like there are people like you say who use words like elitist and toxic to put down those who share your views.

It most certainly is a thing.

Citations, please.

More combativeness. These two posts you are completely dismissing Verhienen and his opinion. Your tone even if it isn’t your intention is relaying to readers that you don’t take him or his point seriously and that your point is the only right one. This comes across as arrogant.

Having climbed the ladder, the person at the top knows more about it than the person at the bottom.

So when an actual raider says that LFR is a bad idea, or when someone who does high level Mythic+ say that Raider IO is actually a good thing, or when someone with high arena rating says that, no, you’re class/spec isn’t broken, and that it sounds like you just need to practice… they might just know what they’re talking about.

It’s not an “appeal to authority”, it’s an “appeal to experience”.

Now this post here and most of the ones after it are similar. Again, nothing you say here is really wrong. It’s all in the way you say it.

Using a ladder metaphor and putting those who you agree with at the top and those you disagree with at the bottom makes them feel like you are calling them lesser and unworthy and that you are the worthy one. As well the examples you give only take your opinion into consideration and are dismissive of others opinions.

It’s true that you aren’t saying that you believe this is the way everyone feels, but at the same time you never say that. You never make it clear you aren’t talking about everyone and you use language that makes it sound like you are.

Because it completely ignores why LFR was created to begin with and unless something has changed within the game/community itself… that reason still exists.

Not really. It all comes down to the reasons the Raider gives as to why LFR is bad.

This gives this impression that you think the Raider is the end all and be all and is the only one whose opinion matters. That ‘is bad’ implies to those reading that it is the only valid opinion

If you had said: Not really. It all comes down to the reasons the Raider gives as to why they think LFR is bad.

That one little word there changes the whole sentence and doesn’t set me on edge.

I won’t go any further, I’m already feel like beating a dead horse here.

You are right. I read into what you were saying and made assumptions. But in my defence, the way you write makes it look like you wanted those assumptions to be made. I am not saying that is what you intended, just that is the way I read it.

[Breakbeat-kilrogg (Breakbeat)]

Well said.

[Kypookins-baelgun (Kypookins)]

This will be a trend that’ll thankfully plague the retail community only.

Heh, that is cute.

[Breakbeat-kilrogg (Breakbeat)]

If however you try to project your own abilities, values and goals on others, and especially if you belittle or denigrate their choices and / or draw negative comparisons, expect push back.

I’m out of edits due to “circumstances,” otherwise I would have just edited this into my previous post:

I’d only add that in my experience, there will be some pushback regardless. The most well-written forum posts, for example, edited for clarity and tone, re-read and re-checked for word choice, so that you absolutely, positively took a neutral tone and steered clear of ad hominems will still get at least one flippant “wall of text crits for 4351234…” response.

This is mirrored in-game. Example? People talking about pet collections. “I have 100!”. “Cool, I have 535!” “Right on, I have 650.”

Then I pipe up, “I’ve spent a lot of time collecting pets, and I have 1120.”

…

“Man you spend too much time here, don’t you have a job?”

Stuff like that.

[Grøm-altar-of-storms]

You are right. I read into what you were saying and made assumptions.

Not many are willing to admit this in public, so +1.

But in my defence, the way you write makes it look like you wanted those assumptions to be made. I am not saying that is what you intended, just that is the way I read it.

I can be blunt at times. What is obvious to me, may not be obvious to someone else, and vice-versa.

[Rokujuro-eitrigg (Rokujuro)]

Heh. Twisting my post into an “LFR is good or bad” argument misses the point entirely. In this “Why look down (not hate, another twist) on players who strive” thread, my point is that striving is just not enough to satisfy many of you. Most of you. I include you, since you choose to defend these elitists. What we look down on is your attitude that you are the arbiters of what is good or bad for the rest of us because you have been there and done “that”, whatever “that” may be. (Raider? Been there, done that. Woop te doo.) LFR can go to blazes for all I care, but don’t try to take it and expect me to say thanks. Same with “Welfare” epics. You are not qualified to decide what is good for me or anyone else, or what I need or deserve, and the fact you think you are irks me to the bone and always will. I don’t like bullies. I don’t like the “haves” trying to push me around and telling me it’s good, and that I have more than I deserve.

[Medaax-area-52 (Medaax)]

Like 6%+ damage across your entire raid makes or breaks killing Ashvane which is why a VAST majority of guilds are stuck on her. People talking about “feelings” over a “1% upgrade” have no idea what a hard dps check is.

[Littlefella-medivh (Littlefella)]

New one for me. I thought being casual was the biggest bad?

I think most people just want to be left long to do their thing, whatever that might be. It’s when people come stirring the pot and getting the reaction they expect then they step back and acted all shocked. It goes in both directions.