Why is rio viewed as toxic?

You’re right. It IS gating.

But gating is the reason why people can pug +20’s, yet LFR, which has absolutely no gating beyond meeting the minimum ilvl, regularly wipes a dozen times on N’zoth.

Gating is the cornerstone of successful pugs in WoW. Taking the first people to apply always has, and always will be, an awful way to build a group.

Two reasons:

1.) It is one of the two barriers (along with ilvl) to doing higher level keys, so people blame it for their inability to progress in m+.

2.) Rarely, but still some of the time, people apply high standards to joke keys (Anyone who even looks at io for +2 is insane), so it gets a bad rep for being overly punitive.

Except she’s correct though

If you think you’re entitled to a key run to then you’re not getting far

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Again, just because it’s difficult for you to imagine playing the game without addons doesn’t mean poeple aren’t.

Until there’s a survey done provin’ that a majority of players use addons, I’m considering it a rather safe bet to say most casual players don’t, and casual players make up a very massive majority of the players in wow. Though at the rate this conversations going, next your gonna try to argue that casuals are a minority. :roll_eyes:

And the RP addon thing was an example. :woman_shrugging: Not a rule.

I’m really not understandin’ why you’re getting so upset over this.

That is an interesting observation.

There is entitlement in every aspect of this. Some people believe they deserve to be included, some people believe they deserve to have a perfect run.

Notably, RIO enables some entitlement while crushing others.

And I think that enabled entitlement is most often the well spring for negative views of RIO.

Wow, multiple strawmen in this response.

I’m curious as to what your source is on this.

I think it gives enough to take a shot on someone. You get the top of whatever dungeon and you can see the party and probably weed out a lot of the people who bought carries for that top one.

Not as convenient, but definitely workable if one was inclined to screen a little for a group but didn’t want to use IO

My source is that Determination exists only in LFR and it’s the easiest mode :slight_smile:

It’s still a strawman.

If I tell you “I don’t like peanut butter” and you reply with “so you’re saying I shouldn’t throw jars of peanut butter through business windows?”. You may be right, that you shouldn’t do that but that does not mean its not a strawman.

Sad thing is, no one here has actually shown any entitlement, as far as I can see.

I certainly haven’t. I’ve stated my reasons for not liking IO, but at no point have I made the claim that I ‘deserve’ to be invited to high end content on a whim. Pretty sure Arthas hasn’t said that either (although admittedly, I’ve missed some of his posts so I might be wrong).

So he’s claiming that there’s entitlement when there isn’t in order to throw folks who disagree with him under a bus.

The content is gated by design. It’s not meant for everyone. What is even your point here?

Follow the thought to the end. Content where experience is the highest correlation to success, addon to easily display readily available experience… you can do it.

What? There’s no straw man here. False Entitlement is the only argument against RIO.

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Interesting enough, there was a discussion yesterday about LFR and some normal raiders were arguing that LFR is harder than normal.

Player 1: “my score is low what do I do”

Player 2: “start off working with +2 keys”

Player 1: no I want to do a +15 now!"

This is how people think “gatekeeping” is a problem when it’s literally not

Work yourself first and you’ll be accepted everywhere

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Nope, you’re just not nearly as smart and mature as you think you are. Grow up kid and then talk to me.

The fact that you keep using your opinions as facts and then claim anything that goes against them is “Deflecting” is even more so.

So then it should be easy to say how is it being used “incorrectly”. Oh wait you deflected again!

basically their entire point, random pugs should teach them

ive never understood how gating = bad when it is the only way you can make sure your group goes smoothly

do lfr nzoth and cara and youll see a perfect example of how great this game can be without gateekeeping!

i think i should have a tool to make my runs smoother. I dont think im entitled to a perfect run, even with appropriate ios things can still go wrongg

Blizz could add an “auto accept” option to LFG so people could be sure to avoid the feeling of gatekeeping.

It’s only gated behind key numbers by design. Adding to that with incompetent players who have no idea how metrics work… by giving them a metric is bad bad bad.

I could possibly reply to this with what you quoted to being with… for real.

lmao! It’s the very epitome of a strawman. You’re attacking positions you’re inventing.

all rio does is show experience and show whether or not you are qualified. People against it want to usually get into runs they arent qualified for and then say pugs have unrealistic standards

I’ve already answered this to you before. This is what we call a “circular conversation.”