You missed the point buddy. You didnt get “all ret damage reduced by 25% so you dont get used to the playstyle” thats what demo got, egile the expansion was current. Maybe ask what i meant instead of lording it over
Demo is still very good. 
It has a nice kit.
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If you think either of those specs are better than ret you’re out of your mind.
Mostly due to the fact their are more ret players and they spoke louder and more often for rework/buffs than the enhances did.
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Im not talking about now
It got a huge nerf so people woulsnt play it due to a rework, and then irs had huge mechanical issues. What im trying to say is wheres the huge nerf for ret, its still playable.
Granted im being toxic here. But its like no one remembers blizzards words.
Oh, back in wod when it was breaking foundry?
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Better or worse =/= needing rework
Frost dk better than ret atm tho for sure
tbf dk in general needs a rework. Their playstyle of being able to lock down almost any melee in the game, being incredibly tanky into 90% of teams, doing the most damage in the game, and being pretty much un ccable isn’t fun to play against. Prob not the reason he’s arguing for one tho.
Def not
I agree completely tho
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Source?
The primary reason for the rework is PvE.
I see more Enhance parses on warcraft logs, I also see more enhancement in M+ according to Raider IO.
If you break it down by class Paladin DPS is the lowest played (brought) in PvE, the only other class that is close is SP. SP are brought more to raid (not by much) while Rets are played more in lower keys, once you hit 15 and go higher it shifts over to SP played more.
If memory serves the number of parses in relation to other classes is lower than it was at the start of the Xpac despite the PvE buffs. Less and less people are playing it/getting invites to endgame content. Paladin DPS in PvE is subpar. It’s not me saying it, the numbers are pretty clear. Ret doesn’t get invited in PvE at the same rates of the other classes. Not sure what the actual population of the classes are.
In PvE Ret is the least desirable spec to invite that is very clear by the numbers. If there really are fewer Enhance players than Ret it demonstrates the PvE weakness even further. Despite enhance having a smaller player base (?) they show ~46,000 more logs over two weeks, a 36% increase over the number or Ret logs.
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No it was about mid, but we got a tree, then shuffled some talents around in the class tree and ret tree, and then no change ever
Immunity
Battle Rez
Externals
Truth
I’d rather be a broken spec and top tier than a ‘feels good to play’ spec and bottom tier
This, that, and the third thing too but it can’t replace AS or it’s pointless unless improved on in other ways.
Rated A to S tier by top level players
Ret has more legitimate defense than Ele or Enhance
Because being able to hit someone for 200k hp instantly and 300k in a full global is enough to win matches. Mind you this is what i’ve seen AFTER the nerf. I’ve hit maybe two EB over 200k since the nerfs. And to answer point one, in the universe of high level arena, they have more viablility than enhance, frost dk, survival, combat, fury, etc
Hardly, higher burst, higher overall, multiple immunities
Finally a valid argument. tips hat
Agreed on point 1, i believe you on point 2
PVP, Ret is good in PvE, they just don’t offer anything unique that was needed in this tier to my knowldge; for example Huntsman needed immunities and paladins were the best.
Go ahead and let the other several million players know.
Right now it’s your claim of Ret being good vs hundreds of thousands of end game groups (raid and M+ groups) that take anything over Paladin DPS.
The entire player base has it all wrong.
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That’s a pretty cooked opinion.
turbo i think is more viable that any ret comp in the game currently. Frost dk has tons of really good comps rn and has way more top end representation than ret rn. Surv is really good right now just not better than bm so most people play bm. Fury is fine rn honestly but once againt arms is just better and more fun.
he said after enh, not worse than enh.
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It’s cute that you think millions of people still actively Raid.
If you’re referring to Mythic+, Ret is almost S tier. Sounds like a learn to play issue. You post everything as if you’re unsure. They’re also typically known for making mistakes over and over because they can’t brain.
Ret mains refuse to play other classes because it’s all too overwhelming for them and they need to have their entire rotation put into two macros.
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This is Ret and Ret players in a nutshell.
Ret has always felt terrible and played terrible. That’s why it’s getting a rework.
because and mostly
a) it’s a shambling wreck in PvE that has an annoyingly convoluted rotation on a traditionally extremely straight forward spec
less notably
b) it’s either an eldritch abomination level threat or a cowering wimp that does nothing with absolutely no middle ground with no notable utility that you couldn’t get by playing holy/prot anyways
basically, it doesn’t work
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I can’t be blamed for the community defaulting towards fotm, it happens every patch; this doesn’t mean ret is bad. Ret has still cleared rank 25 keys, with only arms and enhance clearing higher; rank 26. Across all mythic logs over two weeks, Ret sits 7 spots above enhance for over dps, the ONLY reason enhance is invited is windfury totem; and maybe windrush.
Pretty based, ngl
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I don’t get why people are so against ret getting a rework. Do people actually enjoy playing against them? Is it fun getting hit for 200k crits?
The rework is removing a lot of that and making the spec more consistent rather than gimmicky i don’t really get what’s to complain about.
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