I know a lot of people bring this up, but this honestly is more of a symptom rather than a cause unto itself. The problem isn’t just waiting on cooldowns, it’s literally a complete upending of the risk/reward structure that exists for M+.
Without a timer, there is no reason to ever pull more than one pack at a time. There is no reason to ever pull when your healer isn’t at full mana, your energy users aren’t at full energy. There is no reason to ever pull trash into the boss. There is no reason not to hard CC every mob in the pack except those that are immune, every single time.
The timer forces teams that care about progressing to weigh the risk of the strategy they employ. There are interesting decisions and intense yet satisfying pulls specifically because groups in keys at a level that is engaging have to undertake some risk in order to make the timer. Taking the timer away changes the mode completely; it’s not just a matter of doing the same pulls but with cooldown up, the best strategy for success becomes nothing but minimizing deaths. We can debate whether that’s good or bad (I think you can guess where I will stand on that debate), but it’s indisputable that what you’re advocating for is a different mode entirely. It’s no longer M+, and those of us who like M+ for what it is today will lose that mode.
Which is especially frustrating to keep having to discuss because the timer is already just a soft requirement. Nothing stops any group from ignoring it completely if they’re just after the experience; and if you keep using the same key, you’ll likely wind up timing some number of keys by happenstance anyway. But the inevitable changes that would come to the mode if the only challenge were reaching the finish line would affect everyone.
I, too, levelled up my Delves, and I have neither Earth Elemental nor Bloodlust, so I just did what was gear appropriate.
I don’t see what point you’re trying to make here; we have players (some overgeared) failing M+ runs because they skipped learning the mechanics at lower levels by using Delves to gear up.
Easier does not necessarily translate to “no challenge”.
And the Delve loot cap is arbitrary. There’s no reason they couldn’t extend it to reward Mythic track gear. They don’t because they know it would upset a huge part of the playerbase.
Disclaimer: I am not advocating for Mythic track gear from Delves; I’d argue they already over-reward based on the difficulty compared to M+. I’m simply saying the loot cap is not a fundamental function of Delve difficulty.
Because you still have the 10-minute Sated debuff? I don’t remember there being 10-minutes between every boss in Antorus…
All i know is that i hate it, i only do 4 per week cause its required by my raiding guild, ill probably drop raiding and just pvp again cause M+ is awful content.
The precursor to Mythic+, and even Mythic dungeons as a difficulty setting, were the “Challenge Mode” dungeons in MoP and WoD.
Those had item level sync (locked down to a pre-determined ilvl, on par with heroic dungeon gear if I recall correctly), and were strictly about beating the clock.
I think the only rewards were from achievements for clearing all the dungeons at bronze, silver and gold thresholds. Gold in particular awarding some VERY nice-looking cosmetic items for each expansion.
The other kinda-sorta precursor (not sure on timing) would be the rifts and greater rifts from Diablo III.
Mythic+ is just that, a combination of the old CM dungeons and greater rifts from D3… with a reward track meant to be applicable to all players.
Somebody probably already said it already, but, the reason why there’s a timer is because otherwise you would just run like 1-4 tanks and 1-4 healers and achieve absurdly high + keys by completing them super slowly but being indestructible. Same reason why Diablo 3 greater rifts had timers - to avoid end gaming being a miserably slow tank spec slog. If DPS didn’t matter then the only way to prevent people from going infinite in keys would be to start dishing out unavoidable one shots. Self survivability via damage reduction and immunity would become king to exclusion of all else, and you would need to wear tank trinkets and stack versatility and stamina. The meta would become unbearably toxic. Can you imagine running a +40 key and it taking over 5 hours to complete? Yippee…
ALL THAT SAID, I do think a case can be made to remove timers for low keys. maybe have like keys 15+ become elite keys where the timer is added.
Dark souls, elden ring, etc are a rhythm based games. Once you learn bosses to that degree, they become a joke.
Source: I’ve played and beat all FS games(except BB, not on PC and I refuse to buy a PS because of paying for online play…) with only melee, no summons/spirit ash, no magic, etc. It was very easy after that and I still beat them all easily to this day on repeat playthroughs.
Which is to say, that wouldn’t work in an MMORPG. Specially one thats tab-target focused, and doesn’t use roll, evade, etc type controls.
The problem with a death counter is it would allow people to do content way above their skill level. You can just wait for hero/cds on every pull. My demo lock is 547ilvl and doing tier 7 delves because I just wait for CDs between pulls.
The timer is there to prevent this, forcing you to keep going and learning to advance without having CDs always available to you.
Yes, but it’s the time added that is difficult not the death itself unless you are out of brez or the player that died just used all their CDs inside heroism window.
