I’m struggling to understand why it’s a timer and not something more fun to play around like a death counter?
Why isn’t the timer something that’s kept exclusive to AWC? During a race against the clock, I’m led to believe that most players will be prone to make more mistakes than if it were just a total death counter for the dungeon.
I think Delves got it right in that aspect: deaths counted feels far more impactful than racing against the clock at all difficulty levels.
The thought behind it is to add difficulty and challenge. Mythic plus is, as I see it, arcade Warcraft
Affixes, monster mechanics, and everything to challenge players who (once they know the fights) to complete the dungeon with tornadoes or pools or devour shields requiring everyone to ADHD hyper task
I believe the players want a lot occurring at the same time. Especially at high keys. It’s like being at the playground as a kid
So you know how to hopscotch. Can you do it with your arms tied behind your back with water balloons being thrown at you? It’s like that.
Raids fill the niche of planning and execution. Mythic is do everything fast, but now with water balloons. The next difficulty? The ceiling is descending slowly to crush you
It’s not my idea of fun, but it must be fun for others with the development time put into it
It’s supposed to be a challenge. Without a timer, the challenge would have to be significantly more difficult bosses or trash, even more than we see now. Otherwise you’d have people willing to spend 2 hours in a single high-key M+ because of the reward. And you’re still welcome to do that, if all you want to do is finish the dungeon.
But large rewards come with large challenges, and a timer is the easiest way to do that.
Is timer the only way to make things difficult ?? Nope look at stuff like dark souls , Elden ring ,surge and the latter.
Would wow players be happy if Blizzard did that ? Nope, look at the all the whine Elden ring got recently for their new expansion being too hard.
The difference is their Devs are focused on one audience , our devs are not. So this is what they came up with a time trial based instance
Because greater rifts in Diablo 3 had a timer.
M+ is just greater rifts, copied and pasted into WoW, by the Diablo developers after they were moved to WoW when D3 tanked.
That’s all. No more, no less.
why is a death counter more fun to play around?
currently, deaths are the leading reason people don’t time m+. so how do we not basically have a death counter now?
A death counter is not actually challenging. At least not nearly as challenging as a timer. Without a timer a group can easily manipulate the difficulty by using CC to pull 1 mob at a time and even wait for all CDs, including heroism, between those pulls. That might still be difficult for some players but for a majority it is not.
Because the wow community wont run molten core in classic unless they spend at least an hour collecting world buffs.
If it didn’t have a timer you woukd see posts of people raging their hostages escaped their key after the 5th hour.
Timer is fine, why should you be rewarded with IO if you don’t beat the timer?
You win some, you lose some.
Also a death counter would be the number 1 tool for griefers, terrible idea.
The timer is simply to add an element of pace while simultaneously not letting you brute force your way slowly with cooldown usage over and over. The option to not pay attention to the timer is always there and they even let you get a cd reset once the timer runs out on demand now. You still receive the loot but just no cr but i imagine you would not have the same pool of players as want to run with the timer so might be a smaller pool but maybe im wrong
The timer was lazy. Blizzard could absolutely make hard 5 man content without a timer, but that would require massive changes to how classes work.
They would have to remove the long CDs from classes, and remove a lot of the CC that classes have now. I actually think turning dungeons into sort of mini raids would just be better for the player population that plays WoW.
cranking up mob health/damage is the laziest way to create difficulty
the timer is fine
it’s not a boogeyman.
Because delves have a finite difficulty. M+ ramps up indefinitely. A death based m+ will just eventually end up being a degenerate gameplay of waiting for lust on every single pull. That’s no fun.
Even if M+ had no timer, the prevailing style of gameplay would still be to clear it as quickly as possible just as it is in all other untimed content. Allowing groups to take their time isn’t going to exclude all the players/groups that still want to mass pull as if the timer’s still there.
Don’t worry. Once you start running keys +7 and up, the death counter is extremely impactful.
This is the truth. So long as a group is moving at a normal speed they’ll make time easily. It’s when people start dying a lot that things don’t get timed. So in a sense it already is a death counter
It’s kind of like what Morpheus said: it’s one system built on top of another.
Back in MoP, they added Challenge Modes with a timer because Blizzard mistakenly thought players enjoyed speed running dungeons; after all, that’s what they had been doing a lot of in Wrath (and Cataclysm).
But I think Blizzard misunderstood WHY players were speed running: it wasn’t because we thought it was fun, it was because gear inflation inevitably lead to overgearing the dungeon mechanics such that many could just be ignored, so the dungeons went from having some level of challenge to being a daily slot to get badges / valor points that we wanted to get out of the way ASAP.
M+ having a timer is an unfortunately natural iteration on Challenge Modes.
and fortunately one of the best things they have added to WoW
Challenge mode in mop is what hooked me