Hey a whisper of their betrayal here, a whisper of them never accepting him there. Etc etc. Best way to influence someone.
Heās not.
/10
Too much room for him to say āNoā. I doubt our precious Banshee Queen would leave that option open.
Hmmmā¦ you make a valid point though one can say that Derek was never meant to be a true Forsaken but a mere tool, a weapon.
In that case, Baine has a valid point about it being a dishonorable tactic since it involves robbing a being of free will.
Again, that thing that Forsaken supposedly treasured since Vanilla. Sadly, since Cata, more and more corners on it have been cut to now where I doubt Sylvanas even pretends to care anymore.
2 Likes
The thing is āForsaken she cares aboutā > āEnding this warā. Sylvanas has always been one who goes for efficiency over morality. If she has to sacrifice the free will of one person to spare thousands more and end this war and threat to her existance, then that is something she is willing to do. And I agree with her.
2 Likes
It is kind of sad how little faith these leaders of the Horde have in the people of the Horde that they seem to feel that there is no option in opposing Sylvanas except through dodgy means. How exactly Sylvanas can have enough power that it will intimidate all the leadership into avoiding confronting her directly seems laughable. What is the point of having these racial leaders if they lack the means to voice their peopleās interests within the Horde?
The Horde is such a worthless political institution. Hell, I donāt even trust Thrall to make things better since it was his leadership which created a system that has allowed two runaway warchiefās in a 10 year span.
Anyway Blizzard seems committed to writing this narrative with Baine and Saurfang as these honorable ideals of horde nobility and sadly I think that is what we are going to be stuck with in the long run. It feels to me like they seem more interested in writing these characters to be something the Alliance base would approve of over the Horde however. It seems to be a common thread lately.
BtS had it too. The most sympathetic characters in the story ended up either leaning to the Alliance or being used to portray the Horde as villains. I have a very bad feeling that next expansion the Horde will be back to following Alliance heroes around by the nose again.
10 Likes
you donāt have to go that far, i think that horde players will have to take quests from brann next patch who was happy murdering trolls in nazmir. (not confirmed)
Why are the Tauren part of the Horde period at his point? The Hordeās relationship with them is practically parasitic. On top of having to give vast amounts of their food and water to Duratar, they have twice been dragged into wars that they wanted no part in.
Other way around, the Horde has aided them again and again against their threats, saving them again and again, and yet they offer nothing of value in return except crying about our enemies. That they didnāt cry about the Orcs cutting down the centaurs is surprising, though back then there was a better Chieftain, so that may explain it.
5 Likes
No we donāt.
2 Likes
Mostly because the alliance has shown they dont really care about the taurenās lives (with stuff like Taurajo being burnt on faulty information, and Bael Modan) while the Orcs have helped them.
Oh, sorry, you have a few like this person here who support the man who would literally betray his own people for his Alliance Overlords. Sorry, I forgot to account for the people who supported him banishing his own people for wanting vengeance against the Alliance for their slaughter in Camp Taurajo. And legitimizing the murder of children, claiming it was a valid military targetā¦ cause you knowā¦ children being taught to hunt is now a military outpost. Sorry brother, Baine is a traitor to the Horde and his people.
2 Likes
Fanfiction written by Christie Golden isnāt Canon nor what actually happens in-game, and regardless, sending more of your people to die an impactful death out of vengeance is foolish.
The only thing heās betraying now is Sylvanus. Her actions are mirroring exactly the same kind of evil Arthas showed as Lich King, raising the Dead to bid her own will for her own power gain. Even the imagery of Derek Proudmoreās torture is the same as what was done to Bolvar.
I like characters who are written to act based on prior knowledge and genuine emotion, not ones who are borderline cartoon villains.
2 Likes
Yeah, as much as a lot of us would love for that to be trueā¦ thatās not how it works.
14 Likes
I hate Christie Golden and her writing and I refuse to pay a single dime for anything she writes. Here is the crux of the problem though: IT IS CANON! It is lore. As stupid and as fan-fictiony as it is, it is the lore because she is a writer for the game we play. So Baine being a Alliance-worshipping traitor? Lore. Sorry.
And the Horde soldiers he killedā¦ and the Horde heroes who went through the trouble of getting Derekā¦ and the Horde war, basically taking one of the only advantages we have left and handing it to the Ice-queen that just got done slaughtering our alliesā¦ and his own people who have not forgiven the Alliance for Camp Tauranjo to this dayā¦
Wrong, she only did that with one corpse, who she never claimed would be a Forsaken, much like that admiral they raised to merely send a message, they were seen as tools, not as additions to the Forsaken. Derek was the same. And Sylvanas always was the one who used cruel means if they prove to be more efficient. And seeing how the writers suddenly decided out of nowhere that the Horde now, for some reason, is losing the war, she needed Derek to strike a decisive blow against the Alliance.
She has enough genuine emotions and reasoning for what she has done, you just want to believe that she is the cartoon villain you want her to be because she is not a āhonorableā Orc who is okay with dieing out as long as it means that their honor is intact. As Sylvanas said to Saurfang before they parted ways:
āPerhaps you donāt care if the Horde goes extinct as long as it is with honor, but I believe that the Horde is worth saving.ā
2 Likes
She wanted to save the Horde so much that she started a war she knew she could only win under very specific conditionsā¦ and then burned down that condition.
5 Likes
Itās all as Volājin saw it. what is happening now is what must happen. I hope Baine survives to see the other side of it.
1 Like
āShe wanted to save the Horde so bad that she started a war that the Alliance provoked and wanted.ā
There, fixed that for you.
2 Likes
It has zero representation in-game and is never mentioned at all in the main product. Sheās only been an employee for a few months, the āstoriesā she wrote will never be Canon unless theyāre written by someone who actually knows the story in-game and they actually appear in-game like they should.
And now she works on the writing team because people genuinely thought her writings were true to the story.
1 Like