Why Is Baine Even A Part of the Horde?

Lore Story Forum
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Why can’t you just appreciate edgelord Garrosh like I do? I mostly agree in that Golden’s portrayal of Garrosh in some aspects is frustrating and downright nauseating(his bizarre ambivalence towards Anduin in particular), but that was just one passage where Golden’s portrayal of him is actually enjoyable and consistent with who he is as an orc. Say what you will about Anduin, but I don’t think Garrosh thought he was an honorless coward. He crushed his bones by dropping a bell on him and Anduin’s response is to try and be his therapist. Not cowardly, not honorless. I think you might be thinking of a certain tauren who likes to eat blood elves.

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That’s like half of the plot you’re discarding, some of it before she was even hired onto Blizzard fully. Not liking something =/= it doesn’t exist.

Really gonna put that in writing on the internet then?

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69

Cause it always reminds me of his stupid moments like the intro to Twilight Highlands… and I have zero tolerance for idiocy in characters.

Also Anduin and his ubber pacifist mumbo jumbo hardly correlates to Orc deffinition of honor (which is more about dying gloriusly bathed in the blood of your enemies). Also, Baine is Spineless, not honorless (he has entirely too much of Saurfang´s “muh honor!!” ´s brand).

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The intro where he solo killed a twilight dragon? That was pretty cool. I think he actually learned a lot from his failures and blunders considering we were able to eventually get the Dragonmaw on board. And then eventually victories like the battle of Northwatch hold and Theramore.

I think there are some commonalities in concepts of orcish and human honor. There are certainly orcs who’ve recognized honorable qualities in humans(Garrosh pretty much shouts this at every human brave enough to try and fight him). Anduin being a uber pacifist doesn’t mean he can’t also be honorable, they’re not mutually exclusive. I personally can’t stand his character so I don’t why I’m so invested in defending him but I feel that I should set the record straight. I never got the impression from Garrosh that he thought Anduin was a coward or honorless. Aggravating and annoying, sure, but not without honor. You’re not going to ruin Garrosh for me, the writers did that ages ago.

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Yeah and where he literally wasted his hard earned air fleet cause he got triggered by Alliance ships… if anything him punching the dragon made him look even more cartoonish and ridiculous.

Lul, Zaela was basically cheerleading him just after learning his name (lovely how she spoke about him not being corrupted just for him to become attached to old hod juice in the next expac… while she faithfully follows him regardless). The only thing he gained after the PC hard work was a fangirl, period.

Not honorable in the usual Orc meaning of the word… but then again Golden (as proven for BtS) is an specialist in twisting the Horde characters PoV so they aknowledge the gloriousness of her human pet characters. It wouldn´t be any wonder for me if “True Horde = Orc only Horde” would end up respecting Blanduin for his “honorable” (Orc TM) attitude.

I´m not trying to ruin him for anybody, just expressing my own reservations with the character.

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It’s a box canyon with only one way in and they already have a fortified wall built. A relatively small force could probably hold off the Horde indefinitely. Also, Mulgore is the Horde’s breadbasket. This means that the Tuaren can produce their own food and water which eliminates the possibility of starving them out. It also means that Duratar will be facing famine very quickly once their main source of food is cut off.

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I actually liked that about Garrosh, I liked that he made mistakes and blunders and operated off instinct and raw emotions. It made him seem more real as a character and honestly given his characterization it made sense. He was flung into a position he was wholly unqualified for and was often reckless and headstrong. It was only in tides of war and Wolfheart that we actually see a military strategist start to emerge. So he punched a dragon and got his entire fleet blown up. Big deal! The writers just built him another one!

And he brought the Dragonmaw clan back into the fold who had experience taming and enslaving dragons. Pretty big win for us at the time I would say. Zaela being ga-ga for him was just a bonus. I’m still sad we had to kill her.

Yeah, not a fan of Golden’s heavy Alliance weighed narrative(I don’t think she plays Horde at all). But I don’t think orcish honor is solely about “dying gloriusly bathed in the blood of your enemies”, that’s a bit of a unfair generalization. I know we joke about orcish honor as a meme a lot but there’s definitely more to it than just seeking death in battle. I think there are prominent examples in lore like Durotan and Orgrim and even Ner’zhul whose sense of honor would be palatable and relatable to someone like Anduin, and possibly vice versa.

You might appreciate Garrosh(and other characters) a bit more if you raised your tolerance for idiocy a bit :wink:

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74

Baine doesn’t hate the Horde, he hates what Sylvanas is doing to the Horde. Yes, she claims to be doing everything in the Horde’s best interest, but it’s becoming more and more clear that she’s looking to turn the Horde into her own personal Scourge.

You can’t have Baine. You can’t have Saurfang. They’re not “Alliance Sympathizers”, they’re just tired of Sylvanas’s nonsense. It’s pretty clear judging by the responses to Baine’s arrest that most of the Horde’s leaders are beginning to agree.

Sylvanas’s days are numbered.

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Sorry, tried and failed. It´s my personal curse regarding narrative material (unless they are extremely funny -like Gallywix-, I inevitably end up hating idiotic characters regardless of they appear in games, books, movies, etc.)

Baine doesn´t care enough for the Horde to legitimately hate it… he´s too busy anguishing over his Alliance buddies to do so.

Personally, I rather get Rokhan´s or even Lor´s brand of “treasonous / discontent” regarding Sylvanas very questionable methods… seems more selfish but also more realistic and overall less aggravating at least.

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I like Gallywix too but he is kind of a major bonehead. He got completely clowned by Mekkatorque in their fight and was actually dumb enough to hit on Sylvanas. Guy’s got a death-wish.

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In short: he´s so ridiculously idiotic he´s awesome.

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I like the time he blew up his own people’s home to get rich off azerite and then forced the survivors into slavery aboard his pleasure boat. Even Sylvanas was like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95SYdjRVCR0

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I don’t see Baine anquishing over “Alliance buddies”. I see him getting peeved at Sylvanas for stripping someone of his free will.

Free Will. You know… That special idea that was one of the very few things that made Forsaken supposedly better than the Scourge. I doubt he would have raised much of a fuss if she had raised Derek Proudmoore into your basic undead member of the Horde.

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Funny how he didn´t seem to bother before with Amalia. Heck, how does he know Derek IS being mentally controlled? The audio implies Derek was in the middle of PTSDing from being raised, but nothing in game is shown portraying him as being mind controlled. We could argue she “robs” him of his chance to say “no thanks, pl0x kill me again”, but then again it was not like he had time to acclimate before Baine jumps the gun to defend him.

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Sylvanas: “Once his mind has been properly conditioned, we will allow the Proudmoores to recover their long lost prince, so he can slaughter them in their sleep.”

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Beats me. I wish Sylvanas or Garrosh had executed him. He doesn’t belong in the Horde.

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CONDITIONED can mean many things, considering undeath has many side-effects, remember the woman we raise? Voss technically ‘conditioned’ her to get past her PTSD and confusion of being raised. Sylvanas is just not so gentle.

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Baine is the leader of the race that’s supposed to represent the “Heart” and the “Hope” of the Horde. At least, that is how I see the Tauren’s role in the faction.

It’s just that Tauren aren’t treated as an important enough race for that motif to really shine through, so whenever the spotlight is on Baine it’s always him doing something that sinks his characterization for people because it’s always the most saccharine form of idealism rather than something more wholesome and respectable.

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I’m sure conditioning him to murder his own family while they were in their sleep involved simply whispering in his ear with special promises and favors.

Dang, Sylvanas. What will Nathanos think?

:roll_eyes:

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Hey!! I said I agreed with him!

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