Why I think Race-Class combinations ARE important, and removing restrictions could be harmful

[Cur-proudmoore (Cur)]

@Ana-elune

You mean to tell me century after century or generations after generations a culture in wow would not have even a few among them go against the grain?

I will pound this one every time. From about 10,000 years ago until about 20 years ago canonically, only male night elves were druids. Only females were Elune devotee priests and warrior caste. About 6 years later, after 10,000 years of strict law that literally split their society apart, they decided mages are no longer a problem.

The number of people, particularly NONDRUID MALE night elves and FEMALE DRUID night elves, that post on this issue like a paladin will break their lore. L M F A O.

[Heretodie-emerald-dream]

I remember when blood elves gained the warrior option in Cata. I was so excited to level one all over again. This wouldn’t be as exciting with the option opened from the start…but I would have already had the desired option.

Much likes with allied race DK’s, there could be ways to make it work. I wouldn’t mind unlocking new combos through a series of quests, or even rep.

[Silverleigh-drakthul]

@Ana-elune

People hung up on night elves being mages never made a lick of sense to me. Like in many rpg game worlds elves in wow have a history involving magic. So how does that not make sense for them to be mages?

See first paragraph in the following article:

Night elf

[Gabrimathus-thrall]

Did you play shadowlands? What lore are you talking about? Everyone is malganis

[Grievus-nagrand]

@Maldazzar-medivh

But WoW’s appeal has always been the WORLD of Warcraft, getting to see and experience all these new, interesting cultures

Heavily agree with this statement.

Unique cultures with distinguishing features, with elements that set them apart from others. That’s interesting. Classes that are unique to certain races because of those cultures is also interesting.

Having everyone be everything? That’s not interesting. That’s homogenization, and it’s very, very boring.

[Índra-moon-guard (Índra)]

@Maldazzar-medivh

However, I personally feel the idea of opening up too many of these Race/Class combos could be actively harmful to WoW and its Lore – as some past combos already have proven.

Sad thing is that the majority of the player click accept to every quest and ram down anything. So they don’t care.

So if lore keeps taking a dive in, I might be taking a rest from the game, because I’m here for it, not to repeat the same 8 dungeons weekly to get a piece of loot I don’t need from the vault.

Blizz will do like the Highborne. They will say “Hey, these guys joined” and will never, ever use them again. When we have Nelf Warlocks (Most… ridiculous combo, but hey), we will have 2 quests saying it and we’ll never see them again in the game, only with the playerbase. So it’d be as if they added nothing.

Hopefully it is like that unless they do something too amazing.

[Taethelan-malganis]

I don’t like the Dracthyr I’ve been shown, so I’m not going to play one. It’s pretty simple.

If you don’t like the new race class combinations then don’t play one. I’m sure you haven’t agreed with 100% of the story that’s taken place through all of the expansions. But you still play the game regardless. This will be no different.

[Maldazzar-medivh]

I honestly really think some of the options being added are potentially problematic.

Tauren and Draenei’s cultures just wouldn’t make sense to have Rogues, who are almost universally thieves and assassins. Again, for me it’s very much the cultural aspect.

Similarly, Orc Priests feel like another very poor fit. Orcs have ZERO connection to “the Light”, or any sort of belief in Divinity.

Like I said, at a certain point, you’re sacrificing not only the culture of the RACE, but also the history of the CLASS as well. You’re boiling these classes down to nothing more than “buttons you push”.

[Msßombastic-wyrmrest-accord]

@Maldazzar-medivh

Tauren

Grimetotem have plenty of Rogues in their ranks, and Bane allowed the refugees to return to Thunderbluff since Cata. Bloodhoof Tribe refugees who decided to not become Fel Totems joined up with the HMT and they had Rogues within their Ranks.

@Maldazzar-medivh

Draenei

Draenei have had the Rangari since TBC (WoW wise) and they are a group of scouts and marksmans who utilize stealth, assassination and subterfuge.

@Maldazzar-medivh

Orc Priests feel like another very poor fit. Orcs have ZERO connection to “the Light”

Orcs spend a lot of time with Taurens and Darkspear Trolls who use Ancestral and Voodoo to make a form of spiritual connection to what you would call “the light.” Not hard to see the orcs using their own shaman heritage to make a branch off study to deepen the bonds to connect with their ancestors through the means of practices that priest/priestesses do with in the game’s lore already that woudl grant them similar abilities.

“The Light” is just devotion, as described by paladins. An unwavering and faultless devotion to your belief. Aka Goblin Priest are nothing more than TV Evangelical Preachers. Coin for a Heal type scheme, and nothing is stronger than a goblin’s love and devotion to gold and the light that shines off it.

[Nekkro-blaumeux]

Great post. But what’s more immersion breaking than class combos is when the world is all riding around on giant cats.

Cringe to the max

Old school wow will always be superior to retail because it obeyed the lore and it didn’t look like a circus.

[Billibob-thrall]

@Maldazzar-medivh

However, I personally feel the idea of opening up too many of these Race/Class combos could be actively harmful to WoW and its Lore – as some past combos already have proven.

Not if you have race/class skins that could work for that specific race!

[Maldazzar-medivh]

I can respect the attempt to make sense of it, but I don’t think it really works.

The Tauren we play are NOT of the Grimtotem, at this point those would really make more sense as an “allied race” with different options.

The Rangari are clearly “Rangers”, which are Hunters. There are parallels to the Rogue, in that they may be able to use melee weapons on occasion, but they’re hardly “assassins and thieves” they define Rogues.

You mention Goblin Priests, and I’d honestly argue that Priests (along with Shamans, or Gnome Priests) are yet another class-combo that doesn’t make sense. And “The Light” is certainly more than just “devotion”, otherwise EVERYONE would be able to be Paladins. And that most certainly is not the case.

Now that’s not to say there isn’t room for growth. Zandalari Paladins were definitely a different “vibe”, but they managed to make them fit relatively well, certainly a lot more than Tauren Paladins. I’d still like to see Blizzard make an effort to “bridge the gap” a bit – maybe have a Zandalari Prelate interacting with the Silver Hand or Blood Knights – but they presented them well enough to still “fit” the Zandalari’s culture.

Like I said, it just feels like it’s boiling classes down entirely to “game mechanics”. It’s so completely at-odds with the abundance of Class-fantasy we got in Legion, which was almost universally loved (class-fantasy, not Legion specifically).

[Dendritus-moon-guard (Dendritus)]

@Maldazzar-medivh

Obviously, we’ve seen the Devs say they want to start moving towards a WoW that doesn’t have ANY Race-Class restrictions, and that appears to be starting with the likes of the Priest, Mage, and Rogue classes.

However, I personally feel the idea of opening up too many of these Race/Class combos could be actively harmful to WoW and its Lore – as some past combos already have proven.

Now, I think adding SOME additional ones would make sense – an “Eredar” or Nightborne Demon Hunter, for example – but I think SOME restrictions are absolutely, fundamentally important.

To me, while people love citing D&D as an example for “why people should be able to do anything they want”, I would argue D&D is also fundamentally very different.

See, D&D ISN’T about the “world” or the setting; it’s about the players. People don’t “get to know the game-world” beforehand; they create a character and backstory from scratch, and LEARN about the world as they go.

But WoW’s appeal has always been the WORLD of Warcraft, getting to see and experience all these new, interesting cultures. As an extension of the RTS games, those races/factions were not all “the same but with different skins”. Night Elves and Undead, for example, were extraordinarily different, both culturally and mechanically, and that was conveyed in how vastly different all of their units and buildings were.

And Race/Class combinations are an extension of those cultures.

Now, obviously WoW can’t convert every single unit into its own individual Class, but most of those same archetypes can be found represented quite evidently in the Classes that WoW launched with.

Only certain races can be Druids; that immediately communicates that Druids are a class that have a deep connection to nature, and that races that CAN be a Druid ARE connected to nature, culturally. while Orcs may have a deep respect for the elemental spirits – allowing them to be Shamans – they are most certainly NOT “custodians of nature”, thus further showcasing the cultural difference between both Shaman and Druid, as well as Orc and Tauren.

Letting Night Elves and Orcs be Mages was a terrible idea, because for the former, that was LITERALLY the cultural distinction that lead to the Highborne breaking away and eventually evolving into High/Blood Elves, and for the latter, Orcs have NEVER been “studious, scholary wizards”, which is what sets Mages apart from “just anyone with any sort of magical aptitude”.

Now, I’m not opposed to “adding new Lore to JUSTIFY new combos”, although there’s rarely been the case. Tauren Paladins, for example, remain COMPLETELY disconnected from the Paladin class. They’re literally just “Sun Druids”, and that means “Paladin” is just a series of buttons.

And that’s it; not only does each RACE have a rich, interesting history behind it, but so does every CLASS. But when you just say “eff it, everyone can be everything, it doesn’t matter”, you’re throwing away ALL of that history. Races become nothing BUT “how they look”, and Classes become nothing BUT “the buttons you push”.

So as much as I’ve been impressed with everything I’ve heard about Dragonflight, this specific thing makes me INCREDIBLY nervous. Because it undermines both Races and the rich history and cultures they bring, and it also undermines the Classes and the history they bring as well.

Now, am I against ANY new Race-Class combos? Not necessarily; I just want options that I feel fit culturally. And at the same time, such as with the Demon Hunter, I can also understand that sometimes perhaps things can be a bit TOO restrictive, so Lore can and perhaps should be expanded to allow for new options.

Dwarf Shamans were a great example of an addition that made a TON of sense. Similarly, it ENHANCED the Dwarven culture, because Humans AREN’T Shamans, it showcased how their cultures differed.

In short; these “restrictions” help tell the story of the world, without even having to TELL you a story.

Now, if Blizzard wants to continue adding some “Allied Races” or “Subraces” or even rebrand them as “Heritage”, I could see being more lenient. For example, adding a sect of “Eredar who seek to mend the rift since seeing their brethren return home”, I could totally see adding an “Eredar” option that DOES have access to the Rogue, or the Warlock, but NOT things like Paladin, Shaman, or Priest. Lord knows I love customization.

But I also love having a world that feels truly immerse yourself in. Having been playing a lot of WoW Classic lately, I’m struck by just how much I miss its slower-paced, more “mundane” sort of world-building and storytelling. And frankly, some of the Race-Class combos are part of that; yes, ANYONE can pick up a gun or a bow, but is that really ALL that makes a “Hunter”? ANYONE can pick up a dagger, but does that suddenly qualify them as a “Rogue”, a class literally known for being expert assassins, pragmatic utilitarians that openly fight without any semblance of honor?

I think opening up certain options simply betray WHO the Races (or Classes) are, thematically and culturally.

Add some more Demon Hunters, and I’m totally down for Dracthyr getting other class options. And if I had the option, I might even consider even removing certain particularly heinous options (NE and Orc Mages, and Tauren Paladins; those are probably the most egregious), giving them free race-changes in the process.

I sincerely hope Blizzard reconsiders this idea of “letting everyone be everything”, and chooses only those who feel genuinely appropriate to the game’s world, and each race’s culture. Because otherwise, I think doing so could prove actively harmful to the game.

Activizard already made multiple lore breaking race/class combos. Too late to be upsetti about “muh lore.”

[Tovi-moon-guard (Tovi)]

@Maldazzar-medivh

The Tauren we play are NOT of the Grimtotem, at this point those would really make more sense as an “allied race” with different options.

There is no physical difference between Thunder Bluff and Grimtotem tauren. Grimtotem have black fur and guess what? We have black fur.

The Grimtotem has been in Thunder Bluff since vanilla. Before Cata it was Magatha and her followers. After it was Jevan and his. The ones that followed Jevan swore loyalty to the Horde.

So yes we can play Grimtotem.

[Hewer-kelthuzad]

Outliers do not number in the 10s of thousands. Outliers are rare. There is no infrastructure in thunder bluff to accommodate a cadre of tauren rogues. Thuggery does not fit their culture to any degree.

[Hellasha-alleria (Hellasha)]

@Dendritus-moon-guard

Activizard already made multiple lore breaking race/class combos. Too late to be upsetti about “muh lore.”

Such as?

Note: Night elf mage, Tauren Paladin, Goblin Shaman, and Gnome priests aren’t lore breaking.

[Msßombastic-wyrmrest-accord]

@Maldazzar-medivh

The Tauren we play are NOT of the Grimtotem, at this point those would really make more sense as an “allied race” with different options.

Actually they are. Since Cata. As well since during WC3. They are part of base game Tauren lore.

@Maldazzar-medivh

The Rangari are clearly “Rangers”, which are Hunters. There are parallels to the Rogue, in that they may be able to use melee weapons on occasion, but they’re hardly “assassins and thieves” they define Rogues.

Rangari is like SI:7 a collection of individuals that specialize in certain tactics. Did you play through WoD / Legion? Draenei used many dirty tricks against their foes that would clearly be equal to rogue like behavior.

@Maldazzar-medivh

You mention Goblin Priests, and I’d honestly argue that Priests (along with Shamans, or Gnome Priests) are yet another class-combo that doesn’t make sense. And “The Light” is certainly more than just “devotion”, otherwise EVERYONE would be able to be Paladins. And that most certainly is not the case.

Not really a counter to what I stated but okay. Arthas lost devotion, “the light” abandon him. There are plenty of NPCs in game where the light abandons people and grants people power. Scarlet Crusade? Yeah, they are Devoted to their belief, not to the light, but to their belief azeroth should be purged from all those not like them. Guess what, they rocked some pretty powerful Priests and Paladins.

The Light is just a trope, it has been a trope since they added Draenei and Blood Elves. Draenei’s light are sentient wind chimes, same with Blood Elves, by means of torture. The power they gain is their devotion. Not all can be as devoted as a paladin, why there are not more paladin options as of yet.

Gnomes Priests are presented as field medics who utilize magic and technology that mimics what they observed from their Dwarf Cousins Lore Wise; Game Play they are Priests.

Goblin Shamans - The masters of their craft. Contracts and dealings. All through Cata there are numerous dialogs and a few quests where elements are conned into contracts and one even gets upset that a contract wasn’t meet to terms and has to be beaten into submission so a new contract is made where there are no loop holes.

@Maldazzar-medivh

Zandalari Paladins were definitely a different “vibe”

Loas, it is heavily detailed in their quest line and books scattered about. No different from Darkspear Warlocks. Loas can do some crazy things just to ensure their followers are powerful enough to get them the mojo they want.

@Maldazzar-medivh

Now that’s not to say there isn’t room for growth. Zandalari Paladins were definitely a different “vibe”, but they managed to make them fit relatively well, certainly a lot more than Tauren Paladins. I’d still like to see Blizzard make an effort to “bridge the gap” a bit – maybe have a Zandalari Prelate interacting with the Silver Hand or Blood Knights – but they presented them well enough to still “fit” the Zandalari’s culture.

Nothing says room for growth like “abandon your ways cause your culture and religion is different and you must be assimilated into what we deem normal.”

@Hewer-kelthuzad

Thuggery does not fit their culture to any degree.

Plain Runners; Scouts trained to embark into enemy territory undetected and gather information and relay information to allied camps and settlements, as well take out key threats if the situation arises.

But anywho… it is not for any of you who are against it, or any of us who are for it to say otherwise. Blizzard’s game their rules.

[Hernehunter-moon-guard]

@Anïme-illidan

You lore people can’t seem to get that through your heads. The story and the lore will go always towards profitability

Shadowlands disagrees, as does pretty much any of the last few expansions. We’ve been divebombing into less and less subs since WoD. Legion might have had a small uptick but we’ll never know cause WoD singlehandedly plunged us so low they stopped reporting numbers out of shame, I doubt with the train wreck of BFA/SL we’re anywhere near higher than pre-WoD subs.

[Hewer-kelthuzad]

Blizzard’s game blizzard rules have worked out really good for them since WoD. They definitely aren’t losing ground to every other major MMO. Even Lord of the Rings Online is growing faster than WoW. Maybe blizzard’s rules are awful?

[Msßombastic-wyrmrest-accord]

I guess you kinda are correct. The game has been losing ground since TBC, and has died a thousands deaths from a thousands cuts already.

My favorites

TBC: Horde Getting Paladins / Alliance getting Shamans?! The Game is dead, wont be able to survive from the fall out from so much of their own lore they are breaking!

WotLK: Dungeon Finder? Might as well just unplug the game now, Blizz just killed every need for guilds and community. Dead game is Dead.

Cata: LOL Worgens?! Furries in my game?! Goblins?! [insert antiromani/antisemitic slurs here with Jersey Shore jokes) WTH?! Gnome Priests?! They too short for the light! gnome hunters? they gonna get eaten by their petsLAWLS! Undead Hunters too?@!@#!!~#13rerww! LOL good luck kiting when your pet steals your leg! This game lost so much ground it will be dead before first major patch.

Cata LFR: WTFBLIZZ! Didnt you learn that LFD was a failed idea?1 231!@OPIPOI Game will never recover ever again!

Mists: LMAOMFG KungFOOfighterPandas furries ruin everything! The WORST expax ever!

WoD: Too many to name here… so I’ll just say Everything…

Legions: DH!>!!!>)(()KH! No body! Nobody EVER ASK FOR DEMON HUNTERS!>PIOUJH!!! Blizz failed again. Dead game!

BFA: ( Incoherent screeching sounds )

SL: (Incoherent screeching sounds intensify )

DF: “We gather here to mourn a game that died. Taken from us to early, before we truly got to know it. Died to the unspeakable result of more Class+Race combos were added…”