10/26/2018 07:04 PMPosted by
Vreloth
I'm overall a pretty mild and non confrontational person, and I make a genuine effort to be a good person. But in this game, being able to channel that feeling of strength and power over my own destiny by playing a Forsaken through their content and just kicking $%^ all over Lordaeron helped me immeasurably.
I may very well not have been here today if I didn't have the Forsaken as they are to help me have an outlet to conquer my depression.
As I've said to others, and try to clarify here again for you, I do not begrudge you enjoying the Forsaken. I am actually happy for you that they were able to give you an outlet that helped you. That's perhaps the most positive thing anyone's said in this thread so far, even with all the positive responses and support people have shown me.
As I said to others, I want you to enjoy what you do, and I want you to get to enjoy what you do. It will just never be what I enjoy. And that's okay.
10/26/2018 07:00 PMPosted by
Ariël
(this is NOT the place to post it. Value it more, cause it´s IS the actual reflection of your real persona the way a character in a game WILL NEVER BE. Amadis is NOTHING in comparison to the human being sitting on a desk at the other side of the screen; so don´t make the mistake of giving a purple cartoonish toon more value than it has)
No idea where you're going with this. Most of us who have been here for any length of time thoroughly trash people who post in character, because this isn't the RP forum. Amadis certainly isn't posting as a Night Elf. If you bothered to read the post you're crying about, that was evident about a paragraph in. The vast majority of us are posting as players 100% of the time, not making up silly forum personae.
You just said yourself that the person sitting at the desk behind these avatars has value. Maybe act like you actually believe that.
Worst case scenario, just keep your mouth shut if empathy is out of your reach.
2 Likes
10/26/2018 07:22 PMPosted by
Kazala
Worst case scenario, just keep your mouth shut if empathy is out of your reach.
To be fair... if the OP of the thread did this in GD, I'm not sure it would be received this well.
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10/26/2018 07:25 PMPosted by
Chaps
To be fair... if the OP of the thread did this in GD, I'm not sure it would be received this well.
There's definitely a good reason I stick to just the Story Forums.
Do we have an actual moderator? I've noticed posts being deleted and edited.
Yes, a moderator cleared the first page of that other guy's harassing comments.
1 Like
Do we have an actual moderator? I've noticed posts being deleted and edited.
Yes, a moderator cleared the first page of that other guy's harassing comments.
i never knew the story forums had a mod. i thought they abandoned this place
I'm more inclined to disagree with the way Blizzard has been writing them. Which is more insulting than the initial concept itself since it implies that people with mental illness are a mortal danger to those around them when it's usually the other way around.
I agree with you on this point (though I make no apology for rubbing you the wrong way, as my post was inevitably going to for someone no matter how carefully I wrote it).
But that's because it touches on the very core of my point. The writing of the Forsaken raising others into more Forsaken, while simultaneously presenting the state of a Forsaken as horrific, makes the Forsaken, for me, as unforgivable and absolutely loath worthy.
10/26/2018 07:00 PMPosted by
Ariël
I worry over the point of the thread... I mean, seriously, if he hates the Forsaken this is perfectly fine, but... aand? at the end of the day It´s merely his personal choice and subjective opinion -and I suppose chosing to share with the rest of us the motivation is his choice too-, not an argument to make the Forsaken radically change (as harsh as this sound his opinon on the matter isn´t more important than Sam´s or Darethy´s or Ion´s one). As an engineer I can attest that one doesn´t screw up the design of a product having in mind the people that doesn´t like it if this design ends up scaring away the people that used to buy it. One forcibly HAS TO make the corrections having BOTH potential market niches, not just one of them.
While his opinion overall may not matter much in the grand scheme of things, I do think it is valuable in the personal scale of what a customer things of Forsaken thematic, whether they be good or bad. I've seen Blues use customer's personal taste and feel of parts of this game as reasoning for changes and design goals.
The Forsaken target audience in general has changed notably over the years, and I'd like to see more of the trans-humanism theme than the negative nancy it seems to retreat to as predictably as the tide.
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i never knew the story forums had a mod. i thought they abandoned this place
Story Forum doesn't have its own mod or anything, but they'll stop in if enough reports come through. You can check my first post on Page 1 and see on the [Edited] part that it was done by
"Blizzard", which means it's just the shared forum moderation account that made the edit and cleaned it up.
It's the first time I've seen them moderate here in probably a few weeks.
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As someone who has had the label of "depression" forced on me when I don't feel that way about myself, this post actually made me relate to the Forsaken for the first time. I never thought I would sympathize with the whole death to the living business but now I do. So thanks, OP, for showing me a new perspective, even it it wasn't exactly in the way you intended.
1 Like
10/26/2018 07:20 PMPosted by
Amadis
As I've said to others, and try to clarify here again for you, I do not begrudge you enjoying the Forsaken.
I know.
I just felt like it was a topic I could relate to pretty well and give a decent contribution to.
1 Like
10/26/2018 07:25 PMPosted by
Chaps
To be fair... if the OP of the thread did this in GD, I'm not sure it would be received this well.
To be fair, he didn't post this in GD. GD is a trash can and always has been.
The Story Forum is a small, relatively close-knit community for an official forum. A whole bunch of us have been posting here since the forum opened.
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10/26/2018 07:35 PMPosted by
Ruvalie
As someone who has had the label of "depression" forced on me when I don't feel that way about myself, this post actually made me relate to the Forsaken for the first time. I never thought I would sympathize with the whole death to the living business but now I do. So thanks, OP, for showing me a new perspective, even it it wasn't exactly in the way you intended.
You're definitely not alone in that perspective. See Vreloth's post above. You might find more to get in touch with there.
10/26/2018 07:35 PMPosted by
Vreloth
10/26/2018 07:20 PMPosted by
Amadis
As I've said to others, and try to clarify here again for you, I do not begrudge you enjoying the Forsaken.
I know.
I just felt like it was a topic I could relate to pretty well and give a decent contribution to.
Thank you very much for your contribution to it. I appreciated it.
10/26/2018 07:33 PMPosted by
Amadis
(though I make no apology for rubbing you the wrong way, as my post was inevitably going to for someone no matter how carefully I wrote it).
I can appreciate that you're not trying to "rub anyone the wrong way", however you shouldn't use such inflammatory titles followed by a post that's full of assumptions about a fan base if that isn't what you want. Your personal story and your attempts to blunt your words aside, I've been having to read through countless posts like yours for days and it's beginning to grate on me. Especially when I'm constantly trying to get people to chill down and stop this ridiculous attack on fictional characters and their fans and focus it on the writers in the form of a critique on their work. All this does is worsen the depression (if you're suffering from it) and the vitriol that's already ever present on the forum.
The spreading of the curse isn't the part that I'm referring to. They only do that because it's the only way they know how to survive in a world that's out to kill them and I'm fine with the moral quandary that involves. They need numbers to survive, and unfortunately, spreading the curse is the only way they can do that. Even people with depression more often have a strong desire to live and survive.
My issue with their portrayal is that the depression analogue aspect of their curse is being used to explain why they are slaughtering innocents and enjoying it. They have a hard time feeling positive emotions so they...torture and kill people? It's one thing to fight back against a world that hates you for what you are. To enjoy an adrenaline rush (or the Forsaken equivalent of it) from fighting a good fight and winning. It's another to be out there looking for trouble and being excessively sadistic and committing mass murder.
Aside from that, I stick with the Forsaken because I still hold hope that the writers can do them right, because they've shown they can. I'm not interested in a coming to Jesus or the Light story with characters like Faol. We can have those stories as a venue for some Forsaken that want to manage the curse in that way, but not the entire society. There are many ways to manage depression. Chadwick has a farm, others set up shop, start businesses, bake, etc. Those are the stories I'm interested in, and those stories are still possible within the narrative.
As for those that believe the Forsaken need to have an evil and dark aesthetic because some players like playing evil characters: You don't need to be Forsaken to be evil in this game. Every race in this game has the potential to be role-played as an evil mad scientist type if that's what you want. So I also don't understand why there is a need to funnel most or all of the evil story lines on the Forsaken. Those types of story lines can easily be spread across all the races in small doses. That's how it normally is in most societies. There's also the Ebon Blade and to an extent, the Demon Hunters and Warlocks if they want evil storylines.
Thanks for sharing your story. It was really brave and insightful.
And I’m sorry you have to deal with pricks like Ariël, she’s nothing but miserable and wants to bring you down to her level.
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So, where to begin....
I was born in the United States, 1993, February 26th, same day and hour as the first trade center attacks in Iowa. My father was an alcoholic and former soldier of the ARVN in South Vietnam. My mother is German, we never really got along with one another because to be frank, she sort of looked down on men and after awhile I just stopped talking to her as much.
From an early age it was clear that I, and my family were quite dysfunctional. Not only did I have depression but I also had a cocktail of OCD/ADD that made it hard to function in an ordinary capacity. I didn't ever really feel pride in being a United States citizen, as I got older I learned more about my shared history with them, what happened in the wars. The torture, the massacres, the attempts to 'save' the Vietnamese people from themselves. That's what I heard the most often you know? that it was for our own good, that they were helping us, they were redeeming our country.
My father despite working with the U.S didn't like them, not anymore at least. While trying to integrate he once had a beer bottle smashed over his head because someone couldn't tell the difference between North and South Vietnamese, a Gooks a !@#$ as far most people are concerned. During a class in high school I was told to go back to Vietnam and hang myself because i'd be better off that way I suppose, I wasn't the only one made to hate who or what they were, our part of the state was very conservative.
I had no real connection to American culture, and I was told Vietnamese culture was a bad thing. With my mental disorders I was unable to really focus on anything, though when I did I was frequently told I was a very bright student, not that it mattered much with failing grades. I was going to pass high school by the skin of my teeth, and probably languish in obscurity for the rest of my life.
Then I was contacted by a career help program as we were about to graduate, not really having hope for much else I decided to sign on with them. I still hate to this day that in retrospect many of my other classmates who despite their disabilities, were quite bright, had been shipped off to the alternative school for me to never see again. I wonder sometimes if they found an opportunity for themselves out there, in particular I remember this one kid who had a knack for putting things together and engineering. He's always get in trouble because he kept making things in the shed of his house, but he had a problem with self mutilation. His teachers rather then being compassionate labelled him a freak, and sent him off to get 'fixed' somewhere else.
I quickly learned that after taking a college course I actually had an extremely high level of reading comprehension that didn't gel with what i'd been told about my intelligence. Seeking proffesional help we found that, for one reason or another, I had wildly different levels of skill in various aspects of my life perhaps as a product of my disability. I could hardly tie my shoes and yet I was recruited for a coding program at a University, where we then helped on a thirty year project studying autism with various children around the state. I felt far better about myself that with the bad, there was some good.
I reconnected with my culture again. With Vietnam, where we come from, what our history was, what we value, where we're going and what we want to be. Something my Father has started to engage in at the same time, having stopped his alcholism, his smoking, to reconnect with his family across the seas. These days i'll catch him around every so often, listening to music from overseas on his ITunes, it took us forever to teach our parents how to use anything technological.
I realized there was nothing wrong with me, with who I was, and lived a much happier life because of it. Existence is not pain, you do not have to conform to a society, a world, you don't agree with to actually live your life. That's what the Forsaken are to me, mentally and emotionally damaged in some cases, but not miserable. I hated their vanilla characterization because they made their life about their self loathing, about how they needed to be reformed or redeemed by the light and how if they could just reintegrate into human society everything would be so much better.
%^-* human society.
Human society cannot see past their own !@#$%^- nose, human society is full of ignorant dullards who would lynch you on the spot because you think differently, talk differently, then they do. You don't need their approval, if anything you should view those who don't accept you with contempt. What do they know about who you are? what you've been through? What you do or do not feel? who are they to judge you one way or another? They abandoned you, especially the Gilneans, because of their own selfishness.
Genn Greymane is everything I hate in the world, a disgusting overbearing internally fixated selfishly nationalistic wreck of a man who dares judge me because he can't cope with his own problems. He abandoned us to World Ending threats twice and then acts so shocked, so outraged, when we come knocking on his door with nothing but hatred in our hearts for this pitiable husk of a man.
Genn's curse is no curse at all, does being a Worgen even come with a downside after the Kal'dorei cured his bloodlust? The only downside the Gilneans ever experienced was before, when they went feral, when HE unleashed disaster among his own kind and then had the audacity to hide what was wrong with him from others. Doing so in the full knowledge that if he had seen anyone else with a worgen bite, he would of put them down on the spot.
But times change, now that he's super strong, super fast, and oh so penitent for all the wrongs he's committed he's more then happy to be the Alliances new lapdog. To send people, soldiers, after those he victimized so long ago, whose struggle he does not understand, who by his own admission he needed to think of as abominations in order fuel is own fight with hatred and rage. How many people do you think died at Stormheim? how many Forsaken who knew nothing of Eyir and were going after the Aegis of Aggramar to save the world? Ten, twenty, a hundred, more?
We were just getting on with our lives, we were just making gains with our allies and starting to view ourselves in a way that we weren't by default damaged, cursed with undeath, that it could be a second chance at a new life, a second chance that came oh so easily to you. We could of worked together, we could of found a common bond and worked out our issues, but no! you piss it all a way because, let's be frank: This isn't about the Alliance, this isn't about Varian, this isn't about your son, this is about you and how you need to hate us in order to feel better about yourself you contemptuous bootlick.
Oh but when he see's how ruthless Sylvanas can be to her own people he suddenly feels better about things! Why, it wasn't just humanity pushing them into a corner of depression and self loathing they didn't need to have that radicalized them into a massive military society bent on kicking you out of the immediate area. No, no, no, the key that makes everything make sense is it's obviously Sylvanas making them miserable the whole time. Hooray! i'm so happy you figured it out Genn, you utter trashfire of a human being.
I don't want your salvation, I don't want your 'redemption', I want you goons, lackeys, and thugs to die. Then after that, maybe the Forsaken can establish themselves on Azeroth and work on actually building their society for once.
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a post that's full of assumptions about a fan base if that isn't what you want.
What assumptions about a fan base did I make in my post?
Your personal story and your attempts to blunt your words aside, I've been having to read through countless posts like yours for days and it's beginning to grate on me.
And what do other posts besides mine have to do with my post? Why do you think it's okay to take your built up frustration out in my thread?
My issue with their portrayal is that the depression analogue aspect of their curse is being used to explain why they are slaughtering innocents and enjoying it. They have a hard time feeling positive emotions so they...torture and kill people? It's one thing to fight back against a world that hates you for what you are. To enjoy an adrenaline rush (or the Forsaken equivalent of it) from fighting a good fight and winning. It's another to be out there looking for trouble and being excessively sadistic and committing mass murder.
I obviously completely disagree with the idea that spreading their curse is okay. I agree with you that this is a very disturbing presentation, but then again, it's not their only one. See Widowmaker in Overwatch. She pretty much is the Forsaken of that setting.
however you shouldn't use such inflammatory titles
My thread title was very deliberately chosen. I hate the Forsaken. This is how I feel. That I will not sugar coat.
If people actually read my post, they would see I do not attack the Forsaken fan base. If people can't make it passed the thread title, I definitely don't expect them to read through the wall of text that was my story to get to that part, though. And without my story I wouldn't feel what I do about the Forsaken. If people don't care to understand why I hate the Forsaken, I'm not sure why they would bother to post here in response to a person they didn't actually care to read the reasoning of.
...Yes, a moderator cleared the first page of that other guy's harassing comments.
i never knew the story forums had a mod. i thought they abandoned this place
They don't stop by as frequently now that Threeslot is banned.
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Chill out Darethy damn.
1) Sylvanas betrayed Garithos, and is mad when humans retaliate? Okay.
2) Genn is perfectly justified in his disgust for the Forsaken. They barged into his homeland, enslaved and experimented on his people, worked them to death, and carved their bodies into a sewn together mess.
3) You’re more mad about Genn in Stormheim, than Sylvanas outright hiding her true intentions for being there from her own people, to enslave Eyir, which would GREATLY hinder our chances of getting the Aegis? Okay.