but… the devs said they were the same race. And the devs said the Night elves and Nightborne were not the same race.
2 Likes
Only with “holy” instead of “Mercy”.
It’s worth noting, thread-goers, that Guzzle still hasn’t actually produced any published evidence that implies Nightborne are a distinct species.
He’s claimed I’m objectively wrong, yet refused to prove it. Do with this information what you will, friends.
3 Likes
you mean except chronicle and a dev. Or the in game stuff…
3 Likes
Don’t bother, he’s playing silly buggers with word games.
3 Likes
There are a plethora of different races of Orc, all belonging to the same species.
The fact that you don’t understand basic biological concepts, but want to argue basic biological concepts, is concerning. Maybe, sit this one out.
1 Like
And reading and scrolling educates people on the behavior of who their dealing with like you stated. Some have really great lore arguments in here though.
1 Like
Yeah thanks man, I appreciate it.
3 Likes
Great so since the Nightborne says they’re a different race then we’re done right? Dev said it. Chronicle said it. In game says it. Cool. Thank you.
1 Like
What I asked for, specifically, was in-game (and/or published) material that indicates Nightborne are a distinct species.
What Guzzle provided was an unpublished comment made by a member of the Art Team, and a citation to the Warcraft Chronicle that didn’t touch on their species at all.
4 Likes
They’re a unique race, they’re not a unique species (their species is Night Elf).
Chronicle doesn’t say they’re a unique species.
In-game doesn’t say they’re a unique species.
By “unpublished comment made by a member of the art team”, what old mate means is “the on-stage scripted lore overview from the Legion announcement at Blizzcon”
2 Likes
WoW never uses the word Species to differentiate different races. By your logic, an Orc is a human. WoW only uses race.
You’re right that in some cases this gets muddled as a result.
But with a Dev saying they’re not the same race, and chronicle saying they’re not the same race, and the in-game either saying it outright or at least implying it, you’re just pretending.
I believe I’ve only seen them refer to different species of plant or animal. Never a sentient race.
1 Like
This argument has lost pretty much all its legitimacy with the addition of… Draenei with golden eyes. Orcs but without fel taint. Tauren but with tattoos and antlers. “Not different enough.” simply isn’t an argument post-Allied Races.
And that’s not even bringing up Alleria or the Pandaren. Speaking of which…
This is an argument against hope, not against merit. Arguing that something is unlikely is not the same as arguing it’s a bad/unworthy idea.
Furthermore… The issue with Pandaren doesn’t actually apply to High Elves and Blood Elves. The issue with Pandaren is twofold.
- MoP got a lot of hate over “Kung Fu Pandas” back in the day. As you mentioned earlier, the race isn’t that popular. You should consider the possibility that this unpopularity is part of the reason they don’t get much screen time. (Note: They do get screen time! Just not much of it. Pandaren are right now playing an active role in the Vale of Eternal Blossoms 8.3 N’zoth assaults.)
- The bigger issue is that MoP painted the pandaren as hating war and conflict, generally speaking. So it never made sense for them to get involved in the Alliance vs Horde war to begin with. This IS NOT TRUE of the High Elves, who are already longstanding members of the Alliance, or the Blood Elves, who have been shown to be more than willing to not only go hard on the alliance but to go hard on their own kin.
There’s actually a lesser-known high elven symbol in the unicorn that doesn’t seem to have transfered over to the blood elves. Other than a unicorn mount called the Quel’thalas Steed, which is Alliance exclusive, I don’t know how often it’s referenced in game.
Furthermore, though… You just said 30 years as if that’s a short span of time. It’s actually not. For context, 30 years is more time than has passed in the entirety of World of Warcraft. World of Warcraft has introduced more lore to the series than the entire rest of the Warcraft series. Arguing that there isn’t lore is dumb when Void Elves basically came out of a single quest line that didn’t even span a week in realtime. Writing new lore to flesh ideas out is well within reach.
No, but if someone from another country came to visit you and told you they don’t eat pork, you might have a different take on that. Which is actually more analagous to High Elves and Blood Elves than your example.
In the real world, environment has a… considerable tendency to inform culture. We are, at least to a substantial degree, products of our environment. So when I see a group of elves living among humans and night elves in Stormwind and a group of elves living in the supernatural high society of Silvermoon intermingling with orcs and undead, I am inclined to believe that, realistically speaking, these two groups should have a different culture.
First of all, … aesthetically “re-imagining” a race with body art describes a couple of allied races right now.
Second of all, don’t you think it’s rather arrogant to tell people what their fantasy is? I do. If nothing about the blood elf fantasy didn’t disagree with these people, they wouldn’t be asking for a new fantasy. “Blood Elves are High Elves” is simply factually untrue. It’s an extremely reductive statement that serves no purpose other than to shut down conversation. If that’s the hand you intend to play, great, but don’t act surprised when people who like high elves aren’t convinced by a non-argument.
Calling the most popular pick for a new alliance race a “vocal minority” is disingenuous to an extreme. We’re really setting the bar low for discussion here. And once again, arguing against hope is not an argument against merit. Arguing against hope is basically just how you bully people you disagree with. It has no actual value in a discussion of the merits of a race.
Just because Ion explains why Blizzard did not do something does not mean that fans are obligated to like or accept his reasoning, you know. Blizzard once said they weren’t doing Classic, which should serve as a reminder that minds can change. What may not have initially appeared to work may be tried later and succesfuly implemented.
Moreover… If Void Elves were an attempt to give the Alliance High Elves, that failed because the Void Elf fantasy is very different from the High Elf fantasy people were asking for. It has a lot more tentacles and forbidden magics. I’m glad to hear people …apparently like them. But it shouldn’t be a surprise that they don’t scratch the High Elf itch.
4 Likes
1 Like
As someone who loves the Void Elves, and probably wouldn’t be too into HEs, this is why I support HEs the HE fantasy for people is in high enough demand that it should be implemented. Though be prepared for people to tell you HEs are on the Horde 
Really enjoyed reading your in depth arguments was a very good sensible read!
3 Likes
Well believe it or not I did enjoy your conversation on Orgrimmar, I felt no need to voice support of you, and it wasn’t something I didn’t already know but it was something I enjoyed remembering and wanting to go back and play, as someone who loves Orgrimmar anyways.
And… once you’ve accepted that something being scripted doesn’t make it an official publication, you’re left with unpublished commentary made by a member of the Art Team. 
We are in the midst of a civil war. At the heart of this world the last living members of my species defend themselves against total annihilation.
Source: https://www.wowhead.com/quest=12040/an-enemy-in-arthas
There are bound to be dozens, or hundreds more instances, but I’m not going to go through 15+ years of quest text to demonstrate something that any reasonably attentive person already knows about the game.
And, for the sake of discussion, even if they hadn’t utilized the term a single time it really wouldn’t affect the notion of biological species existing at all (just as none of their published works do).
No, because the word “race” is largely interchangeable with “breed” or “type” – species is something entirely different, broader.
- The Doberman Pinscher is a unique breed.
- The American Quarter Horse is a unique breed.
- The Doberman Pinscher isn’t a horse, nor is the American Quarter Horse a dog, just because they’re both referred to as unique breeds (or, as it relates to WoW, “races”).
Aw cute, Tarrok still thinks the High Elves we want are already on the Horde, and not the Alliance, like we’ve been asking since day 1.
Not surprising from the poster whos only contribution is ever video spams. 
4 Likes
Aww, Cezol, just ask if the video is too complicated for you.
My point is that unlike all the other ARs that that poster mentioned which are on the same faction as the parent race, High Elves are not.
3 Likes