Okay, you have a relationship with some of the Pro Helfers, maybe we can put heads together to set it up to present your case. Would that work better for you? Plenty of reasonable people on both sides for something to work out.
I’m happy to add the megathread text to the bottom of the post.
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If I had it my way, the OP of a mega thread would include a link to all the details of what the Pro-side is asking for.
I would ask the same of the anti. Just to keep the OP brief.
A brief summary of both is all that would be required. Any whom are anaware of the subject would be able to inquire in the provided links for more info.
Oh well, I can’t post links.
Oh apparently I can. What did you have in mind?
Bait.
I am fairly certain there is a pro helf link that is not a “manifesto” as to what is desired.
Either the first half or second (depends on what is agreed upon), the pro summary could be presented and then followed by the link.
Same for the anti’s half, summary follow by a link for elaboration (I don’t know if anything exists yet.)
The final part could remind people to view the link and form their opinion, then invite them to join the discussion if they desire. All the while asking both sides to remain civil.
I know it’s not real structured, but would allow the discussion to begin with out one side or the other feeling left out in the OP.
This of course if these threads go down, and if we don’t get a knee jerk new thread come about.
It should but it depends on who you ask.
Above I suggested what I hope is a reasonable compromise? Let me know.
I don’t think we wanna start writing anything new. I think the least drama-prone thing to do would just be to take the megathread OP and the primer OP verbatim.
The Horde can’t be happy until they take something from the Alliance.
All the baddies and noobs on the Horde cried that EMFH was OP and got it nerfed.
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Yeah, you have a point. That is totally fine as well.
Just curious as to how many undecided players are out there at this point? We will never know since blizz doesn’t conduct polls, or even has a community manager at this point. (Maybe we do?)
Well I’ll need a text copy of the megathread OP since it’s sort of a pain to copy and paste.
I’ll also need to run a quick show of hands on the anti disc before I make any decisions.
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Two points:
a) I was trying to get at more than just the SC. The number of Alliance High Elf NPCs that one finds scattered throughout the Alliance questing experience perpetuates the seeming importance of High Elves to the Alliance and lends to unnecessary fuel to the argument for playable High Elves;
b) The prominent use of the SC and High Elves during the Isle of Thunder patch during MoP gave a lot of fuel to the idea that there were sufficient High Elves to justify them as a playable race.
At a certain point it just comes off as Blizzard either deliberately taunting players who want High Elves or Blizzard just being willfully blind. If Blizzard is serious about no playable High Elves, and I think that they should be, then they need to stop using High Elves as much as they do on the Alliance side. Replace them with Void Elves or Night Elves.
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Agreed. Lets just have Varessa and the Silver Covenant rejoin Blood Elf society, give Blood Elves a 3rd eye color option, and call it good.
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I will only post in here once:
This debate on high elves just has gotten so elevated with its purposes, that people seem to forget that its just for an allied race and nothing more. Its not some solution to high end imbalance. Its not some argument for Horde bias. Its not some grandstanding moment to fight against Blizzard.
Its nothing more than another character people will play until level 60, then wait until Shadowlands to finish since 60-80 is a slog. Or boost so they can have their main be an Alliance elf as they go back to complain about Blizzard on forums.
Now let us get into the first point: Should High Elves have been the Allied Race instead of Void Elves?
Short Answer: Yes.
Long Answer: Allied races in Legion have long been a form of way to garner support from allies that we have grown reputation from, and allies that have been in our ranks for a long time.
The mistake was by Blizzard for going LFD and Velves for Alliance. While I can understand the intro of LFD…velves came out of nowhere and Alleria’s change had zero to do with developing a race of former blood elves going Void.
What it should have been was Broken and High Elves. We have already seen that Legion allied races were at best customization and reskins so…they would have made sense over better draenai and former blood elves.
Second Question: Would Void Elves have been better if they were originally the Alliance-sided High Elves?
Yes, the issue is that Blizzard went through multiple hoops to create Umbric and this new movement of blood elves studying into the Void. It would have been infinitely easier to write to utilize the Alliance High Elves for the same purpose without having them be originally Horde…
Not only that, it would have been Alliance allies staying Alliance rather than former Horde going Alliance.
Let alone the ren’dorei being low population regardless, provides ample room for them to draw from the quel’dorei communities. It would require writing, but it could have worked.
Third Question: Are High Elves feasible now?
Im going to get hate as an Alliance player, but Im saying: No. At the current point in time, the void elves have taken up the blood elf allied race for the Allied Races. Whether we have another round of allied races has yet to be seen. For all we know, Allied Races are just a BFA feature.
Not only that, but implementing high elves gives off a perspective issue for ARs, a perspective issue for the Alliance, and a technical issue :
- A potential introduction of a playable quel’dorei might make ren’dorei come off as a failure.
Think of it from a marketing perspective: ren’dorei currently hold the highest play rate of all Allied Races. Implementing another allied race that uses the same model and looks more like the original parent race…might kill the interest of ren’dorei.
Why play as a void corrupted elf when you could have an uncorrupted elf with the access to potentially the Paladin class? Paladin is one of the most played classes in the game and is one of the major drivers for Blood Elf players.
At one end of the spectrum, ren’dorei would lose playrate making the Alliance no longer hold its highest playrate but instead compete with each other as Zandalari climb.
At the other end, quel’dorei do not take off and we have another LFD which has low playrate but 60+% of its playrate is paladin
- Implementing another Thalassian variant shows that the Alliance cannot stand alone on its current themes.
Now you will be asking: Mister Wolfman, what does that mean?
To be simple, borrowing the model from the Horde again to make something for Alliance puts the Alliance on a unique problem. That issue is that the Alliance cannot garner interest without utilizing Horde ideals
But Mister Wolfman, isnt quel’dorei already Alliance allies?
Yes, but the issue is that they are a political division from a popular core race on Horde. That means their core look and ideals all belong to the Horde from a pure glance and general outlook.
This is an issue since Alliance has become more and more a withering faction at its top-end. Not creating unique identities or importing Horde themes is never a good way to boost playability. Void Elves didnt do that, and Nightborne arent exactly stealing Alliance players inversely.
- The current state of the quel’dorei would make the Allied Race system downgrade for its implementation, leaving the Alliance at Blizzards mercy for what goes Horde.
At the current moment: people have come up with the ideas for customization on hair stylea, skin colors, and tattoos for Alliance quel’dorei. This would be all fine and dandy…
.
.
.
…if this was the Allied Race system at 7.3.5.
The Allied Race system has seen this megaboost in its potential with the last few cycles.:
- Maghar orcs having different skin colors for their tribes
- Zandalari customizing rigs.
- Kultirans getting a brand new skeleton
- Mechagnomes opening a path for future races that dont use certain appearances on portions of the body
- Vulpera being a brand new race
So how can we go from something that opens many doors to going back to antiquated designs with Alliance feeling the blunt force?
The answer is: the quel’dorei either need to be updated or they arent fit in the current system’s progression.
I remember back when people were coming up with Horde alternatives if Blizzard went with quel’dorei race for Alliance:
A) Ogres - a new race that would need a modified rig or a completely new rig, as well as new themes to the Horde that arent shared by any of the other core races.
B) Alteraci Humans - a human variant that would probably introduce the new model (skinny human), introduce new themes to the Horde through its fallen kingdom/Syndacite, and offer another hold of the Horde in EK.
Are the quel’dorei supporters Horde players? I feel like this is very imbalanced.
Doesnt this present the same problem with Mechagnomes for Alliance? That Alliance gets a variant and Horde gets something brand new?
All in all, high elves should have been an allied race in Legion. They should have been the allied race or have been the basis for the void elves.
But two years has passed, none of those things happened. Ren’dorei remain popular. To me, high elves could never happen now as an allied race unless we are getting another round in Shadowlands (but that seems like bloating of races).
My advice to the Quel’dorei Allied Race community is two things:
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Move for the Quel’dorei customization for ren’dorei, and push them into their story to have a unified Alliance elven backing.
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Push for half-elves so they have a chance to become something new.
The dream is dead. Evolve and adapt.
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Well said, good post.
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Yeah, well, better not add me to that list.
C’mon man, I am still waiting for your reply on which toon I am supposed to post on.
Oh right. Because everyone has cracked the s**ts about “Oh no, not another High Elf thread”. I thought the Anti’s had a bit more common sense and not contribute more threads about the same topic they’d opposed too.
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Void Elf > High Elf /end thread
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Oh come now Sara don’t be modest.
I said flag and move on. I didn’t say flagged bomb the thread and move on.
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