It’s not a dps loss having that 100% haste buff is a huge dps increase, and if you’re the turd in your group that doesnt bring it because u wanted your personal 1% dps increase instead of giving you and the other the haste buff then you’re selfish.
Make them usable by non LW, make them raid wide and give them a debuff so it’s only one per encounter.
Problem solved.
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If people have to move 1.5 seconds to be in range for 5% haste, it’s a dps wash. Any more and it’s a dps loss. It’s a bit more complicated if you can dps while moving, but casters usually have to be immobile to do their highest dps. Lifetap while moving is an example to mitigate having to collapse.
That just won’t be feasible on a lot of fights. So I think casters could get by without LW until greater drums is in the game. Still a stupid change.
Who cares if drums are not as powerful as WBs. Drums is a toxic meta that forces every raider into LW and it should be fixed. WBs were there and everyone hated and its a lesson learned by blizzard, they promised a fix to LW and didn’t deliver so people are here giving them feedback, I really don’t get where you want to with defending LW because WB were in classic.
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I appreciate the desire to recreate the launch feel of drums and not buff them to their overpowered state until the time frame they were buffed originally.
I also keep recalling the words of a former Blizzard employee
One of the important philosophies of game design is that interesting choices are fun.
So I appreciate the thought behind re-imposing the 8 yard radius to force a new behavior to get the buff and an element of choice.
I’m not sure if it’s an interesting choice though. The fact is nothing else comes close to matching 5% haste raid-wide, so unless there is a significant encounter mechanic discouraging stacking there is no tradeoff.
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I have done AQ40 with that many sappers, and it’s still doesn’t even compare. Only one fight throughout classic where sappers made that much of a difference. Otherwise they were mostly just for trash.
By unbinding the LW requirement, you make the profession desirable but at the same time not feel required for 25/25. LW’s would make a lot of gold, everyone would still use them. It would never be not popular.
Do you realize how stupid you sound saying something like that? How on earth would that even work? It’s an enchant, not an on use item 
Engi is fun and useful for everything, LW is a dull profession and does nothing for you besides drums if you’re not leather/mail user.
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Agreed.
Its easily the least popular profession, and always has been except for the first 2 weeks of classic. After all the melee/hunters got their devilsaur, they dropped it and haven’t looked back.
Have you or have you not raided TBC with a full LW raid comp? Cause I have. Its a 3-4% dps increase on the entire raid, when managed properly. And that’s actually saying something, cause it’s very annoying in reality to get it right and keep kids focused on it.
I’m all for making changes to drums, including instituting a small sated-type of effect. But making them not require LW to use would be a gross imbalance of the trade skills altogether.
Thanks for showing us that you have no idea about what you are talking about.
fond memories we all have of drum rotations
LMAO
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For every class/role? Really?
You just agreed with me. I said sapper don’t even compare to drums.
And how would making them non-LW make the profession unpopular? I truly don’t understand how you could think there would be a gross imbalance. In fact, the changes they are outlining would do exactly that. When 90-95% (pure guesstimation lol) have LW as one of their professions, I’d dare say that’s grossly imbalanced. But if it were non LW bound everyone would be using drums, so it would incentivize people to still roll LW to make a lot of gold. I would understand if them item was garbage. But it will be the most desired on use item in the entire expansion.
Also I’m not opposed to having some kind of Sated debuff as well. That would be perfectly fine by me.
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I guess you won’t be playing in TBC then since you feel so betrayed.
There is no way that 95% of players are going to choose LW, and its sad that you think this will actually happen. They just won’t.
Yes, some sweaty guilds will require it. And that’s cool. I’m as sweaty as they come. My guild farmed 5 thunderfury’s, 3 scarab lords, all the nightmare dragons and azzy/kazzy just as much as we wanted.
Apps on our phone going off at 3:45am to wake us up so we could smoke Nightmare Dragons. (and that’s if we weren’t on the shift to stay up all night and camp them.)
But drums will not be required to clear the content. It’s actually a small benefit, even when perfectly coordinated. Sure, some guilds/teams may require them.
That’s awesome. You wanna sweat? Ok. Then sweat. But don’t sit here and want others to think you’re ready to sweat then cry in the forums cause you actually don’t want to sweat. There is no reason to need a flat 3% nerf to all content by making drums not require LW.
Requiring engineering in your Classic teams is every bit as strong as LW. The ability to speed past lab packs in BWL, various trash in AQ/Naxx-- all the while knowing that speeding thru trash is how you preserve your precious world buffs. They never took the engi requirement off of nades/sappers, so they shouldn’t take the LW requirement off either.
We need a different solution, if that’s what we think we’re chasing. Of course, I don’t think that’s what we’re actually after.
LW will easily be the least profitable profession in all of TBC, just like it was in Classic. Farm/skin bots will be just as prevalent as the rogue bots in BRD right now. One kid hitting ‘craft all’ and walking away will make sure that drums will have zero profit.
Much better idea. Let’s push for that one instead plz.
by the time people realized drums were so good and started using them in the way people are talking about, it was Sunwell patch. Blizzard then added Tinnitus ONE PATCH later, because they realized it wasn’t a healthy mechanic. We don’t need new changes that never existed, just apply tinnitus. People that want to roll LW will still have a unique and powerful buff they can use to help push a boss during a strategic moment.
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I feel bad for you. You are clearly NOT listening to the feedback/concerns of the community on this forum post. People are upset because Blizzard told us one thing, then backtracked to do another. It’s that simple. I realize you’re just trying to troll people at this point, however, it sounds like you are delusional. I’ll pray for you!
Thank you! 100% agree. 95% of the posts on this forum have been constructive and criticizing Blizzard for this HORRIBLE decision. We need this post to reach 1000, 2000, and beyond. Content creators are already making videos on YouTube, people on Reddit are going wild, we NEED this to be fixed. This was such a slap in the face (anyone who says otherwise must be ok with being told one thing then completely doing something else)!
Yes, and I for one would like the drums meta to change.
I don’t understand how this will change the drums meta. I would expect a lot of people to switch to leather working when Zul’Aman is available. Is there is something I misunderstand about how greater drums work?
^ I like this. +1 Heart
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2 min debuff. alright I fixed it
Yes, I understand that.
That’s why I prefaced with
Which we didn’t know at the time for sure (since no one could craft them, and tooltips are often not updated right away).
If the new drums were raidwide, you could keep the buff up 100% of the time with 4 drummers across the raid.
Still hoping they decide to do that.
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