Not sure how long you have been looking around but people have been concerend with drums as we got closer and cleraly after TBC was announced. Plenty of people saw the degenerate game play that it was and didnt want to be pigeonholed into LW for drums. Under the same arguments people said well you dont need world buffs… as they went and got them all in Classic
You could make the same argument for World buffs but the reality is they made content easier. Anytime you can add power to the players it makes it easier. Less time doing fights makes content easier. IS it going to be the difference in some raids in TBC. Who know how easy the content will be. The changes to the bosses, for the most part outside of Muru, are not that big a deal other than Vash and MC. Since we now KNOW whats comming it makes a ibg difference as well. Ontop of the fact were using the patch were most classes are buffed to there best points.
This i actually agree with. There is no content in the game that will end up NEEDING the drums as long as people play well. Since we know whats coming much like Classic it should be easier for most guilds up to Sunwell.
On top of that, it boils down to you can’t make people play nice and not be toxic metagamers. So what can you do? Change the rules (the mechanics, as it were) to not allow that behavior in the first place. So people don’t get a choice anymore, because they can’t be trusted to make the right choice on their own.
You should reconsider your “thinking” and add the tinnitus debuff. Increasing materials/making it more annoying to use isn’t going to stop neckbeards from using it and attempting to enforce it as a requirement on others. It’s toxic.
I mean if you care about doing high-end content but don’t want to go through the effort to be your best, then you’re just lazy. Being on top of the raiding scene should come at a cost, and not just by raidlogging. I guess that flies in your game, but in classic you have to put in the work if you want to be at the top. I don’t care enough to do so, and judging by your forum avatar (if you feel that’s a valid argument) you can’t even get to level 2 so your opinion is even less valid.
If you think this will stop guilds from requiring their raids to be a drumline you’re insane. All this means is that we’ll all have to be leatherworkers AND force march through ZA until everyone gets this recipe so we can all farm slightly more mats to do the thing you wanted to prevent. This 100% just makes it worse.
You saw the overwhelmingly positive response to the claim that you would be doing something to eliminate the drum meta problem and your response was to go back to the failed “No-changes” philosophy but with a twist? Just delaying the meta?
I guess this means that #somechanges is out? Sigh…
Who is being forced into it? It’s the same thing, but nice deflection I guess? Either put in the work, try to win without it, or accept that you’re not meta.
The idea that the only thing that should separate players is mechanical skill is the retail mentality and doesn’t fit with tbc design. Work put into your character outside the raid is just as much a component of your success as your ability to press the buttons your little addons tell you to press.
Engineering is less required than World Buffs. It has benefits besides sappers for open world content. Engineering is also only mandatory for speed clearing guilds, and most guilds aren’t those. Engineering had very little impact on boss difficulty outside of Viscidus. Even then, you probably only needed 15-20 engineers to meet the needs of that fight, not 80% of the raid. Most guilds care about boss progression, not speed runs.
Drums is probably not needed until sunwell, but any semi serious guild will have all LW because the dps requirements are pretty steep for Brutallus and Muru. I cleared them back in the day in a guild without drums rotation, so it is doable. But knowing what we know now, people will do it to clear the content faster.
I get more use out of engi than just sappers. Winterspring tele for getting SF faster, Target dummies for Gluth kiting, explosives for lockpicking in DM, MC cap and other PvP goodies. For a mage LW is pretty useless outside of Drums in TBC
That’s more a problem with classic engineering than tbc leatherworking. Engineering gives you meta and fun, when you should have to pick between the two. Tbc fixes this by attaching a cost to the hardcore approach, creating a meaningful choice which vanilla lacked.
That’s not really how it works. If other people are doing it and clearing content faster, you’re going to feel like you have to do it too. that’s why world buffs are mandatory for most guilds. People want to play by a common ruleset with fun rules. People are very negative about drums because they think it leads to toxic player behavior. It’s a valid criticism, but of course you’re entitled to your opinion.
… what?? Kaivax, is Blizzard paying any attention AT ALL to what people are saying? This has got me extremely disheartened to say the least. #somechanges had me super happy to move away from the #nochanges that YOU KNOW is a minority opinion. When you have multiple 20,000+ vote polls from Classic content creators showing that people want some changes, why would you EVER go back to #nochanges
Oh for sure - at it’s core it is a community attitude problem (same as World Buff meta) - but where the community can’t self correct then Blizz can make some small changes (like tinnitus debuff, don’t need LW to use ect) and make the correction for the player base. It’s like a fat person trying to loose weight - give them a gym membership and expecting them to get themselves to the gym is likely to be a lot less successful than having a personal trainer rock up on their doorstep every morning and get them outside for a workout.
blastwave+sapper is too good