Torture in front of the victim’s children = uncomfortable means of information extraction
Yeah, that’s down playing.
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The difference being, torture is not effective, but this is. Hence the distinction.
Torture isn’t effective, except when the Alliance does it
Torture is still torture, no matter who does it.
What kind of logic are you even using?
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h ttps://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/torture
I see nothing in here about efficacy.
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Alliance-apologist logic.
Forget the pain it caused.
Forget the lasting damage it caused.
Forget the trauma it likely caused the children that witnessed it.
It’s not torture, apparently, because it worked.
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This discussion is to come to of a passing. I’ve believe that many people who first impressions with the taurens’ lore, histories, and so goes on would’ve warranted with them arriving upon the Alliance as potential friend.
But I suggest that you should also re-consider something. There are multiple threads thoroughout the entirety of this forum whom may, or may not be constantly belittling Baine for perhaps the worst sin, of all sins.
For Baine is no hero of the Taurens, but rather of the most deadly, and vile villain the entirety of all taurens to ever truly suffer under His Reign.
In other honest, to be honest. I would be constantly swearing every second-by-second about how really terrible Baine is. Let just be honest here.
Baine is the WORST leader, and the WORST thing to ever happen to Tauren characters, Tauren roleplayers, Taurens in general. Seriously PEACESEEKER?
Dude got tauren genocided by literally ALL THE TIME, and then denied his people any chance of retribution- WHICH was STATED a HORDE’S RIGHT during the “Blood Oath of Horde” in WRAITH OF THE LICH KING.
But seriously. That’s just ONE thing, in a few good numbers of terrible things that Baine is. A literal parasite to practically should’ve been a better writing. I do not understands, and neither do I appreciate the pure existence of Baine’s for he really just make no constant sense. He shouldn’t have been made leader of the entire Tauren tribes of the Mulgore plain, and really shouldn’t deserve his leadership position.
At some point, even a Grimtotem is better leader than this dude. It’s radical.
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I’m calling you dishonest because you accused me of being unable to say nice things about the Alliance when you LITERALLY just quoted me doing exactly that.
Seriously, Are you for real?
And you refuse to acknowledge that during all those “world ending threats” the Alliance was part of that the Horde was right there with them, contributing as well.
Except G’Huun. That was all Horde.
I’m sorry if the facts don’t fit with you’re anti-Horde bias, but their defense of Azeroth is still a better contribution to planetary security than the formation of the Alliance.
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Akiyass is a known die hard night elf fanatic, there is no reasoning with people like her. Why waste your breath, the horde could the most perfect of angels and it still wouldn’t be good enough for her or people with her mentality.
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Interesting leader, sure. Better? Debatable…
Sure. But even a basic campfire is better than Baine at this point.
Not what I said. Torture is ineffective irl. But this is magic, and it yielded results that saved lives. We can look at that with objectivity and see the positive effects and measure that it was the right thing to do.
Irl, there is no magical insights that tell us that we will get useful information. So, it’s not worth doing. It serves no point, it is pointless suffering.
What Alleria did was objectively not pointless.
Well, it was my own distinction. I am not down playing what happened, I am making a distinction because there is one to be made. I do not advocate for torture, but in this fictional universe where there are magical insights that are not available in reality, I don’t that that makes a fair comparison.
Again, I don’t like the Alliance. I just don’t share your specific grievances.
That doesn’t discount the damage they have done, has been my point. Which I think is a fair point to make. And the facts here, is that everything the Alliance would not exist if Horde wasn’t a threat to Azeroth. The facts are that the Horde has been an existential threat to Azeroth multiple times that the Alliance has had to deal with, which has never been the case vice versa. The facts are, despite the Times the Horde and Alliance has joined forces, Azeroth and the Horde would be long dead without the Alliance, and the Alliance only exists because the Horde was the threat that United the human Kingdoms. Which makes the Alliance, definably, the Horde’s greatest contribution to world peace.
I think the problem most have with Baine is, he HAD such good potential to be a great Tauren leader. Instead he’s nothing more than a Alliance fanboy
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It’s exactly what you said/implied. For once, stop being so intellectually dishonest when people call you on your BS. You’re just as bad as Kat.
Torture is torture, what don’t you understand about that?
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No it’s not. I have explained explicitly what my meaning was. Kat would tell you I am not a fan of the Alliance. I don’t like Stormwind, I don’t like the imperialism or the human centric aesthetic of the Alliance. I have repeatedly advocated for the night elves to be independent of the Alliance. So why are we pretending I am some Alliance fanboy? I am far from it.
Alleria saved lives. That is what I think is important.
He looked to have good potential at one point. But the worst they did, was they strapped the entire tauren race to him, and then denoted him to be the Peaceseeker. Most of the stuff he done, was all to secure peace with the Alliance. Constantly sacrificing his people, and or the Horde for any attempt to be friend with the Alliance.
It’s a constant carousal ride doing a tauren roleplay, because your entire race is defined by Baine after Cairne. An flaw, and issue that lot of blizzards’ writing boils down to at end of the day. It would be nice to seperate the taurens from Baine himself, but alas. Not today, it seem. Not today.
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By MIND TORTURING them. Can you admit that much? And face it, if a horde character did the same thing to a alliance civilian, you be clamoring for the horde to be genocided/wiped off the map. Don’t be intellectually dishonest.
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Not if we can say the information gathered objectively saved lives. Which we can say for Alleria.
The only person being intellectually dishonest is you. You are putting words in my mouth and not actually considering my words. There is no good faith in this conversation. You have your mind made up before you even read anything.
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You’re talking to a person who denied photographic proof that their argument was wrong.
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That’s true, and when you quote the BS she says, she claims she never said it. I don’t know why I waste my time or why anyone wastes their time with her.
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Saying it is proof doesn’t make it proof.
That I didn’t say lol
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