And I think people that beat a timer should be given incentive to do so through more rewards and faster key upgrades and ladder representation.
But people should be able to work their way through a key with their friends +1ing a key until they can’t climb any more.
Again beating the boss should be the win condition. Blizzard made a mistake with m+'s implementation by making it all about timers first.
That’s fine. You can do what you want. It’s your sub. Your time.
But… that sentiment DOES mean that you’re an elitist.
Stop trying to pretend you’re not. You are. Just own it. You clearly don’t consider your attitude morally wrong, so why would you be so afraid of calling it what it is?
M+ is about a LOT more than that, that’s for sure.
But those are what the timers do. There’s a lot more that’s difficult in an M+, but the rest of what’s difficult about an M+ would still be just as difficult without timers. The only thing the TIMER itself really does is force people to skip trash and do more AoEing.
Which begs the question of “why does the timer exist if you can just ignore it?”
It sounds like a death counter akin to torghast would serve the same purpose for determining whether to upgrade keys or not. I wonder if that would be generally more liked?
You did see my profile yeah? Hardly that of an elitist. I just play to have fun, and what you describe is far from it. Why not just put it in title instead of griefing ppl who joined in good faith?
I too agree that there should be a way to progress your keystone through dedication, but make no mistake.
“Beating the boss” is not the intended difficulty of this content.
The whole system only works because of the timer.
Dungeons would have to be completely redesigned for what you wish to be the real metric of success.
You can not compare them to raids.
Back before timers were part of the game the people in dungeons who yelled hurry hurry the whole run were annoying as hell.
The addition of timers only glorified this annoying behavior.
It’s kinda like when I had to take my 4 year old with me to the grocery story and they pestered me non stop. To hurry up. It elicits that same knee jerk feeling.
No. I don’t look at peoples’ profiles because I judge them on their words and actions, not their gear.
Those are elitist sentiments. If the shoe fits, wear it. And if you don’t LIKE the shoe, then change it.
Well you can’t ignore it, I was just saying that you would never need to know where you were at in the timer if you aren’t getting beaten up by the dungeon’s natural difficulty.
The timer itself does not play into the difficulty for a vast majority of keystones.
A death counter would be interesting though, but I don’t think it would work.
There are times when very cheap deaths occur in this game, or deaths the player will never admit fault for at the least.
That would likely not be any less frustrating for people.
But perhaps less difficulty psychologically?
What makes you say this? Before Shadowlands, if you beat the boss but failed the timer you received full rewards. Even in Shadowlands, if you fail the timer you still receive the most important reward: progress towards your vault.
The changing of rewards based on the timer is a very recent addition.
So someone who plays the game as intended is an elitist and has a poor and toxic attitude because only your opinion matters? Grow up.
Personally I don’t mind the timers, but I think they are introduced a little too soon. Learning how to best handle affixes and a timer breathing down your neck is a bit stressful. I’m not sure what key level that would be, but a bigger grace period of learning how the affixes impact you before being timed would be nice.
No, someone who considers themselves better than others and bails groups if
things go wrong to find someone good enough for them is an elitist.
Morally wrong? Trolling exposed.
No, this is how it has always worked, since it became M+.
The primary reward though is of course upgrading the keystone to progress higher.
And to do that, you need to surmount the timer.
People who are doing it purely to farm gear are not thinking about the bigger picture of the system.
and keep you from just waiting 10 minutes between pulls so you can lust on every pack
Which is exactly why blizzard failed to implement m+ properly. A failure that has led to the cheese strats, perceived meta and toxicity we see today.
M+ was a great addition to the game but having it be solely about the timer was nothing but a mistake.
If the shoe I’m wearing means you don’t waste my time, I’m ok with that so I guess feelings are mutual.
This whole “skip trash” thing is really a non-starter.
It really makes me think you have very little experience with keys in general, let alone this season specifically.
If you think that is all that the timer is doing, then I can see why you do not like this content, and I can see why it is not for you.