No, we are complaining about the changes to stops. And challengers peril. And the removed 2-10 key bracket. And the wall at 12’s (has been smoothed for next season). And the affixes that are very much still in the game. And the continuous tank nerfs. And the continuous healing nerfs. And the reliance on curses/poisons that limit healer diversity. And basically everything the devs have done contrary to what people were asking for. Loot has nothing to do with what I started this thread about.
If all that you took away from the original post is that I’m saying classic is better, you’ve entirely missed the point. I’m saying people are defecting to a 20-year old outdated version of this game because of the crippling misunderstandings the devs have about what the community expects of retail.
But keep beating that classic drum. We’ll keep questioning why you’re trying to straw man the thread.
Ah, so you are just here to argue in circles. “Play irrelevant content to you because I don’t want to acknowledge the dialogue about game-breaking issues with the mythic plus system.”
You’re the one who’s trying to make this about loot. Everyone else is having a conversation.
What time gate? I havent fealt tike gated since wotlk. Classic is heavy time gate super slow unrewarding and doesnt respect your time. Retail is the inverse you are rewarded for your skill and effort for timing higher keys and more challanges such as mythic plus. And not to mention this season is beyind alt frendly with geting 630 super easy as well.
Hence why all of their incentives – both rewards and punishments – are attempts at steering players towards particular playstyles and schedules. And content modes that would be dead-on-arrival if not for the rewards (such as highly desired cosmetics) being attached to them.
You just have to wonder how active so many different things would be if they didn’t have the rewards attached to them. Unfortunately, all signs are pointing towards a pretty sudden collapse in participation if those rewards are merely insufficient, let alone what would happen if they are absent.
That tells me that the game modes are far less popular than they appear to be.
Proof? Like mage tower is awesome but no one would do it waant for the cosmetics havibg incentives also drives players to improve and reading what you have been saying you seem to think rewarding challanging content shouldnt be a thing and everyone just deserves BiS.
No, I think the point he’s saying is that the carrot-on-a-stick design is not a sustainable one.
He’s right, and you don’t need to look any further on that subject than with the delve/M+ issue, where people were questioning and complaining about the viability of M+ as an effective gearing avenue with the advent of delves. People are not chasing after what content it is they find fun, but rather the content that’s the most efficient or effective for their end goals. Many people pointed fingers at delves without ever considering the possibility that M+ content just isn’t all that fun, and the only reason why people do engage with it is because it’s an effective form of gearing.
Your content should be fun first and foremost, and the end goal should be incidental to that. If removing the reward takes away the incentive to play that content, then it’s not fun, and all you’re doing is cultivating an atmosphere in which people are only ever pursuing end goals. That breeds elitism and toxicity because people are more concerned with producing results rather than just playing the game.
I mean i push keys and do raid because its fun. If it wqsnr fun even with rewards people woulsnt do it but people are doing it so obviously it works.
So in the end its all objective and if you dont enjoy it fine but dont try to force a change because a small loud minority doesnt like it.
I don’t question your ability to enjoy M+. I’m sure everything in this world is enjoyed by someone. I’m telling you that there is a clear mindset within the WoW community that if the content in question doesn’t give the rewards people want and/or easier content gives out rewards that are comparable to that harder content, then the prevailing opinion more commonly encountered in these spaces is that the harder content isn’t worth doing.
That’s not how it should be. You should want to do that content regardless of if it’s fun because this is a video game after all. If incentivizing other forms of gearing is all it takes for the bottom of things like M+ to fall out from underneath, then clearly, the way M+ is designed is illogical and faulty, and it needs fixed.
And im telling you thats a very small percent of players. Players wont do content they dont enjoy and will leave the game (tho many say they leaving in the forums every week trying to get attention) rewards are there for people to want to improve and a cherry on top. Like if it was just gear we wouldnt have so.many people pushing past 10s in keys.
Quite frankly, we don’t know how many people it actually is. We just know they’re here and their opinions on the matter tend to garner a lot of support.
I think you greatly underestimate the sunk-cost fallacy mindset.
Yea man, buffing 20+ other specs to be in line with the single overperformer makes total sense. It wouldn’t cause any environmental balancing chaos surely.
