I think Velen cashed in most of his influence.
If I’m being honest they probably will never actually address it, because how the playerbase reacts can be like a coin flip. If a character is liked enough then them not immediately being treated as a hero for a single good deed or an xpac of half-decent deeds will make the players angry. Conversely, if a character does a few objectively bad things but saves the world a handful of times and is treated as a hero for such, but is disliked, then the players will be mad that those instances don’t have them treated like a villain.
Most of the playerbase is not objective when it comes to that, and Blizzard does know this to an extent. I think the most tolerance we’ll see beyond what we have now is one of the Penitent dying for a cause and the mood being ‘well, they balanced the scales’.
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It definitely is treated that way in this setting.
Reminds me of this post of mine which, and I don’t mean to toot my own horn, aged far too well after a certain lawsuit.
I saw Man’ari in Stormwind just today! I think they in lore are rarely seen, but are very much part of the Penitents who are part of the Draenei. I think Stormwind can’t deny an Alliance civilian be they Dwarf, Void Elf or Man’ari. That would be like segregating and denying equal access to someone based on their racial background. I don’t think that flies in the Alliance.
player or npc?
I think we both know the answer, but in terms of lore. There was that man’ari in the Dalaran sewers who shows up in the Draenei heritage questline. I wish they added Man’ari Draenei NPCs to show us that they’re being integrated in-game in other cities outside of Exodar.
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We barely see death knights or Illidari walking around the streets casually after all these years. The Man’ari should carry an even higher stigma. When the death knights and Illidari are a casual occurrence then I can see the door start opening for the Man’ari.
I dont buy into “this class or race or class/race/spec combo is not canon”. For me, if you can play as it that means there are enough for it to be somewhat common.
The leader of the Penitents himself said that there’s barely any of them on Azeroth.
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They’re not being integrated in lore though. They’re staying on Argus to clean it up, and the few times they come to Azeroth they’re under constant watch by the Vindicators. It’s not like how DKs and DHs are treated.
We see them in Amirdrassil. We have Demon Hunters hanging out in their respective areas in Stormwind and Ogrimmar. Death Knights were seen everywhere in Shadowlands and in Northrend. We see Death Knights on Draenor at our garrisons. We see Demon Hunters all over the Broken Isles, but like the Dracthyr we don’t see that many, because it takes time to add NPCs and add them in every zone in every area.
We know that Velen has vouched for the Penitents and Draenei themselves are only now recovering. So more are appearing in game everywhere the Alliance is. I think as time moves on more of these Man’ari will be seen amongst the ranks and leadership of the Draenei and therefore the Alliance. Irony of ironies if the most brilliant commanders and capable of the Burning Legion’s Eredar end up serving the Alliance in the great and final war between the Light and the Void on Azeroth. All hands on deck!
Demons, mortals, dragons and the undead all fighting against the coming Void… Never thought I’d die fighting with a demon by my side! How about die fighting with a friend? I think Midnight is going to have some very interesting storylines.
This is why serial narratives are so tricky for all but the best writers.
They write an overarching narrative episode by episode and then change course depending on audience sentiment. So there’s no cohesive composition. Chekov’s gun gets left on the mantle. Foreshadowing and narrative breadcrumbs are never realized and the audience feels cheated in the end.
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Not all Manari are thousands of years old, and not all of them were eager supports of the Legion. Many had no choice in the matter and we’re happen to join the resistance when they felt safe to do so.
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All Eredar that didn’t leave with Velen or hid from the Burning Legion when Argus was taken over were turned into Man’ari and as we can see thousands of years have come and gone and Man’ari have had their own children converted and dominated by the Burning Legion. Just as they dominate lesser demons and mortal races. I would love to see more stories of the Penitents and their journey into service to a greater cause and what drove them to join the Alliance by way of the Exodar Draenei.
Just a heads up Cemeron… none of this is specifically directed at you, you just happened to write the words and set my mind in motion.
I feel like a lot of people keep ignoring the fact that Velen only took those who were part of his “flock”. At no point do I remember them ever trying to save anyone who wasn’t part of their religion. Based on the feel I got from Legion, those who weren’t part of the same belief system as Velen were left to their fate and forced to find their own path to survival.
Gotta be honest that leave a sick feeling in my guts reading stuff like this given the current state of affairs in the world.
As if survival itself in the face certain death if you don’t toe the line isn’t a good enough cause… nope we need to justify our refusal to die, to sacrifice ourselves for someone else.
Reminds me of the old “would you sacrifice a child to save the world?” argument. I wouldn’t. In my opinion if the world needs the death of a child to live, then it’s not worth it.
There is the other variation, would you sacrifice yourself, which I think a lot of people assume they would and don’t accept that other people wouldn’t also make such a sacrifice. There’s a myriad of reasons not to make this “noble” sacrifice, some selfish and some selfless.
Oh well, I’m sure someone will come along and moralize about how wrong I am.
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There’s a reason Hatuun was royally pissed at Velen when they meet again on Argus. Hatuun accuses Velen of leaving his people behind to die or be enslaved
And Hatuun was right. Velen and his flock did abandon Argus and her people. I would be angry too if the guy who fled, came back and tried to play savior
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I’m so with both of you on this… there are soooo many layers to tell interesting stories with the Alliance characters that I wish were explore more. (IMO)
Except Anduin his written to be just good incarnate… and Jaina if the Purge and BfA didn’t happen, but sadly the internet never forgets, “someone” probably fighting with all their señority power on the Blizz Team, to clean that up so she can reach Anduin levels of goodness though… (joking I can’t resist sorry)
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People forget that when a fascist oligarchy takes over a society. Those that aren’t saved or can afford to leave are then forced into compliance by the oligarchy. Those that resist are made an example of and those who see this… then simply silence the thoughts and simply survive under the new regime. All the while trying to quiet those thoughts of remorse and despair.
Think how Chieftain Hatuun reacts to Velen and his justified resentment for leaving thousands to die and be converted. Worse Velen comes 13,000 years too late to redeem his people and his homeworld. Do you know how that would make any survivor feel? You’re back? Greeeat… Though overtime he comes around and realizes Velen was as much a pawn to the greater forces and seeks to work with the penitents to redeem all Eredar.
warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Chieftain_Hatuun
The Eredar are now finally after 25,000 years truly uniting as one people. The redeemed, the redeemers and the exiled. Those who were forced to commit atrocities and their victims seeking reconciliation and maybe even peace between all willing factions of Eredar.
warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Arzaal
I think of the world we live in and how so many people who love power and their positions in society choosing to side with the powerful and corrupt, because they think they too will benefit… Some do, and many don’t, but by the time the corruption of the fascists take over. They will either silently watch and commit atrocities or justify it while they do nothing… Such is the way the fascist systems work.
Those that resist are made examples of and the scapegoats become the sacrifice at the altar of greed, hatred, pride, anger, and despair. Like our Shackled Ur’zuls. A price for those who dare defy the whims of the wicked rich autocrats aka the demonic rulers of Argus and beyond…
warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Shackled_Ur’zul
Not to be overly technical but the Burning Legion shouldn’t be conflated to Fascism. Far closer to a Khanate, a dictatorship, or… Theological apocalypse which falls under monarchy. There’s very little government to serve.
As for the topic of man’ari joining the Alliance, I don’t think there’s another faction in the game that is as obsessive in destroying the void. I personally would like to see a slightly less penitent Man’ari NPC aid in spearheading the assault.
Preferably a faith breaker since theres barely any lore on them anyways.
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What? This is a gross mischaracterization of what happened! Velen wasn’t trying to save his “flock”, because there was no flock, everyone was Eredar, their belief system was all the same! The reason he only reached out to a certain group was because he knew he could trust them to not rat them out and their escape plan(and even that failed because someone did betray them)
As for trying to save those “not of their flock” we know the Army of the Light was suppose to comprise of survivors from all races, but Blizzard was pretty bad at representing that and only showed light forged.
In any case, I doubt there was anything Velen could do especially considering they were constantly being attacked by the Legion.
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