I know some casuals bought the wrong rings and trinkets in WoD, but why punish everyone for what a few did wrong?
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Becuz “shut up pvp guy”
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Ion is a bad director.
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Vendors were like a band-aid fix to the larger gearing problem that split the player base. They’re most likely making an attempt to create something that is more enjoyable overall than playing once a week to cap and buy an upgrade.
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So two expansions of ignoring the entire PvP community is them attempting something?
An attempt is something you do during a beta. An attempt would last a patch, maybe two when the whole community rejects it.
This is not an attempt.
This is blizzard shoving their garbage play time metric design philosophy down our throats and telling us to leave if we don’t like it.
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Sure, but anecdotal and all that, you know. Unless you can find some way to gather information about participation rates of active and returning players and link that to vendors our opinions are just feedback.
Sure, find me one post praising them removing vendors.
I’ll show you hundreds rejecting them.
You are a brave and fair white knight, remove your blinders.
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I’m not sure which part of what I wrote went over your head, kind of sounds like all of it, but I’m not going to go dig up all of the bring back vendors threads I was apart of.
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Just seemed like you were sugar coating the loss of vendors. Felt like you were defending them a bit.
You’re talking about them removing vendors as if it was an experiment. It’s greed based design philosophy, plain and simple.
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Its funny how immense negative customer feedback doesnt even matter for blizz and they just do mental gymnastics like O U CANT LINK THAT TO SUB NUMBERS SO WE WONT DO IT
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“shut up MVP guy” -an elf and a cow-man
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It goes both ways.
If players want vendors, the loot system currently isn’t working, if they continue to want vendors then we know it still isn’t working. In an ideal world we’d go from expansion to expansion with everyone understanding where and how to gear.
Without ranting about the pro’s and con’s too much I’ll briefly say that losing tier sets and losing vendors was a step in the wrong direction. Adding warforged/titanforging was a step in the right direction. Flooding players with loot in order to offset RNG and make titanforging work as a core game system however was a big step in the wrong direction. PvP gear got caught in the crossfire and given its limited availability in comparison to tiered raid gear that now extend their own relevancy past the tier, m+ dungeon gear, and world quest gear, the effect is felt substantially.
Realistically, there are a few thousand guilds with an average item level of 410+ , even more 400+, and I don’t know how many of those exactly are heroic+ raiding guilds but I know it’s not all of them and when your considering a player pool that massive whichever ones are casual / normal / social / pvp guilds are too significant of a number to assume they’re a minority or select few. There are enough players to say that all the gear you want can be obtained.
What is not represented easily by third party sites that aggregate player data like this are the “I only want to PvP with my character” playerbase. Players who probably put more play time in than your average player but more than likely clear less content which puts them in a situation where it feels like they’re gearing off scraps.
The [ gearing ] system suggests that players who fill the queues for random battlegrounds, for example, are the same type of casual player that might primarily do world quests. Which is why we see PvP gearing options presented as side systems to the PvE loot progression path. i.e 370 / 385 conquest rewards, 360+ world quest rewards, 385 base cache, 385 emissary cache, etc.
I don’t think we’re at the point where “nobody has a good answer or at least one that players will be happy with” because it really just seems more likely that pvp gearing is deliberately left out each time changes are made.
You saw vendors added for Azerite, you saw world quest scaling added in 8.1.5, and then again when the maximum scaling in last weeks mid-tier catch up was increased to 370 / 395 / 400 essentially allowing casual gearing options to scale up to the point where they’re equal to 1800+ rewards, War Fronts, caches, etc.
It’s not accidental to not have added some type of scaling gear upgrades to random battlegrounds.
I can’t comment on how much “immense negative customer feedback” matters to a specific person, or a company, but I know that when it comes to things like metacritic they do have some impact on future decisions.
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Lol just stop.
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This green dude can’t be serious.
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We want dilly full time. Gotta throw the whole forum away after this thread
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How much blizzard juice did this green poster slurp up to get MVP?
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I disagree, WF/TF are super lame you shouldn’t get geared based on luck (besides obvious boss drops) LFR shouldn’t be able to TF to Heroic+ level ilevel that’s ridiculous.
Blizzard’s problem is they’re not rewarding for difficulty, they’re rewarding for time spent playing or “fishing” for WF/TF etc.
WOTLK’s gearing system was perfect, there was nothing wrong with it so you saying “vendors are a bandaid fix” is ridiculous.
Blizzard gutted/messed up bad this expansion:
Btw, you don’t see what’s wrong with that? 1800 item rewards the same as mindless wqs?
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It’s purely because it increases engagement, /played time etc. Notice all the RNG loot started happening right after WoD, also when they stopped reporting subsciber numbers and switched to different metrics like time played.
A big shift must have happened in the internals at blizzard and now their main focus seems to be squeezing out as much play time from us as possible to progress.
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Two different game systems. This is why I was brief in the outline. Cba to type up a book when its wasted on people that only know how to copy paste something about Blizzard or Greens. When your capable of more than the same generic copy paste quote I’ll put more effort into that side of the discussion.
^ pretty much this. I remember reading or seeing it in some pre legion stream that they were only going to focus on the current playerbase rather than gaining subs.
Like I wrote above , when the gears relevancy extends past the tier, you lose the ability to reward difficulty and it turns into additional dice rolls for TF. At this point all you cando, in my opinion, is cap TF.
It effects a small # of players. I dont like the implications but the change itself I have no opinion of. I havent experienced the scaling first hand this expansion yet. Both characters I play are too high ilvl.
WoD gearing > my stool > BfA gearing
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