It’s already been proved not to. (Streamer name alert)Preach spent an hour on a hard floor and had basically no problem clearing it after. So again, do you crank them up so much that after 10-15 minutes it’s pretty much a guaranteed wipe? Then your content is just more mythic only, and you cut out most people. If you leave them as is, all you’re doing is scaring casuals away, because the hardcore will still wait for lust. The timers are completely a waste.
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We’re talking about people dealing with anxiety, they need to be calmed down before attempting to talk sense into them.
This community’s general reaction of “No, you idiot!” whenever something, ANYTHING, goes wrong is extremely off-putting and just makes their anxiety worse. Even if the intent is to correct the behaviour, the harsh reaction people are expecting (and all too often, actually receive) from this game’s community just ramps up their anxiety and makes them even less likely to learn whatever lesson they need to learn.
People are crazy. They’re plagued by self-doubt, irrational fear, and neuroses.
Yelling at them to solve their own problems doesn’t help them – it makes them worse.
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Torments over time greatly increase the chance of dying, thus moving you that much closer to the Tarragrue. It’s a convoluted timer. How many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man? Lol
At best Torments are just pointless and give reason to not play Torghast, so why do it?
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- Torghast was explicitly advertised as having no timer at Blizzcon (see screenshot posted earlier in this thread).
- A debuff that stacks on the player over time is functionally a timer.
- Most streamers and YouTubers that have reviewed their experiences with Torments have had a negative reaction.
Currently, Torments fail on both aspects of their implementation.
- They rescind the “not a timed mode” statement from the announcement, decreasing player goodwill.
- They are not punishing enough to achieve their stated goal of “encouraging” players to not dawdle.
When implementing something to guide player behavior like Torments, we must consider both the mechanical and psychological effects.
Mechanically, Torments are currently no challenge for the level of player they are stated to target, as demonstrated by Preach’s example of a buddy afking for over an hour and still completing the floor.
Psychologically, Torments will not affect the harder core players but will discourage the more casual, timer averse players (much as passive Sanity decay in Horrific Visions has done for a segment of the playerbase).
So… just to be clear:
Problem: People are cheesing the system by waiting between pulls for heroism/bloodlust.
Solution: Torments to gently discourage them from doing so.
But torments arent actually that much of an issue because the sheer power of said cooldowns justifies waiting despite the torments.
So, just again… to be clear. The people with the cooldowns (and are the reason for the change), face a tiny insignificant nudge that in no way changes their playstyle. But everyone else who DOESNT have the cooldowns has an annoyance buzzing around their character compelling them to move quicker through the tower.
So the people its supposed to target face no change, whilst the people running the tower as most players do, (and dont have said cooldowns to counter the debuffs), are having to eat them.
This is… so ‘unintended consequences’ blizzard! I love it! 
I feel like it started in WoD and when we disagreed, they just went HAM on us forcing their ideal way of play.
They make the game for them. If we like it too, that’s neat, but they are designing their game for them. Last I heard, Ion was a raid logger (heard it here so the accuracy is in question), which to me screams “out of touch with playerbase”.
The fact that the developers themselves can’t see that whatever idea of fun they have just feels like overly restricted game play has gotten exhausting - I feel like I’m trying to find any breadcrumb of fun in the labyrinth of systems on top of systems stitched together haphazardly with RNG.
Perhaps if some of you didn’t do your best to act like them…
I think they design the game more for self consumption… I mean realistically you have more stuns in this game than any other pvp game or combination of pvp games on the face of the planet.
You still have like 8 million subs I think, imagine trying to implement a less restrictive style of play ?
It may lead to a larger player base…
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They need to find a way to make gaining gold fun.
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I think you are dead on. It seems like a lot of people are if you don’t like it than quit… It was never about that. It was about making this game better. Blizz literally said We dictate what fun is. Business models are not made so the Developers enjoy the game, but the consumer. I didn’t think this was a hard concept, but apparently for some it is…
This paradigm brought to you by Ion Hazzikostas. To him, engagement is equal to or greater than fun.
Only way they listen is when you vote with your wallet and stop paying for it. /shrug
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It’s not about treating players like children, it’s about control. Blizz wants to control how you play their game. That way they know exactly what to expect. Anyone action outside of what they think is playable - the whole system collapses.
Which is why these updates are happening in the first place.
This is nothing new.
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It’s systemic to retail. The MUDwhimping factor is real. It seems like it’s all a gaslight trial to figure out how long the retail game can sustain when the developers are intentionally trying to destroy it.
Of course that’s what it looks like to some of us. Some of us actually like the game as-is. It’s up to Blizzard to figure out some way or another that most of the gameplay features that exist now are polarizing. Be it mission tables, WQ, island expeditions or warfronts. To be fair arenas, battlegrounds, dungeons and raids are also polarizing.
Core gameplay rewards need to be consistent across all core gameplay features. That’s how you fix this.
Right, adults like options and choice.
I didn’t start this thread. You must have me confused with someone else. I know we HMP always look the same though. Again, you’re putting words in my mouth. What’s funny is that you actually put something in quotes I never said. You’re ridiculous and I’m not wasting my time with you. You’re looking for a fight, not a discussion. Why is it always the people slinging insults and calling others childish the ones showing a lack of maturity?
OP, they aren’t telling you what is fun in the literal sense. They design the game and they are telling you what THEY see as fun or degenerate gameplay or whatever.
They care, just because they don’t go on the forums to listen to every persons demands, cries for change or whatever doesn’t mean they don’t care.
They just are considering things from a different mindset then someone like you or me. They aren’t perfect by any stretch of the imagination and just like every developer, have their own ego to contend with as they and some other individuals tend to have.
If people are displeased, angry etc, they should continue to voice their opinion in a non-child like fashion. And if blizz is listening…
Please none of this 18 only floors or whatever… and no soft-timers of any kind… oh and gimme an unlimited entry mode. No more of this warfronts or visions crap that has me waiting so much just to get a shot or two at it while it being the core chunk of the content. Thanks.