Mind you, i always hated sylvanas but as of right now, i have two leveled up horde toons: an orc shaman and a forsaken priest.
The priest will go to sylvanas, the shaman to saurfang- but only bc i want to see where each path leads gameplaywise and pick up all the rewards.
However my headcanon is that the shaman jumped on the magni-lets-save-azeroth-bandwagon before this mess escalated into a total war scenario and is now glad he didn’t sully his honor by being an accessory to path of glory 2.0- Basically chilling with hammul like a baller.
My priest doesnt particularly care about fighting the alliance unless some very specific and personal circumstances pop up. After all, she has things to do, places to see, people to meet- faction wars are a waste of her precious time/inmortality
The only parallels I really see between Sylvanas and Trump is the media hype.
“Sylvanas did xyz, she is so evil for doing xyz, impeach Sylvanas”
But then it turns out she really only did x for sure, and might have done y, but Z was a totally made up story that was fabricated to make me FEEL bad about her.
I don’t really think of it as “spite” when I have a hostile reaction to someone who is trying to manipulate me through raw emotional appeal.
Granted Neither Sylvanas or Trump is an ideal leader; however, I can decide for myself whether they have crossed my threshold of acceptability without being goaded by people that try to bypass my intellect repeatedly.
For me, politicians are largely more of a means to an end and there is no personal loyalty involved, or any loyalty that goes beyond patriotism. I could care less if they threw a politician in prison for some wrongdoing.
WIth Sylvanas, I specifically want her story to go well. The story of WC3 was way more fun than “the art of the deal”. If Trump was a fictional character, he would be along the lines of Gennstor Gallymane.
Supporting Sylvanas is not spiting Blizzard. They don’t care. In fact the more support you give her the more it will probably encourage them to make her, and others like her, more and more villainous in the future, the exact thing you claim to not like. Just say you like the character and you like what she is doing and that is why you are ‘supporting her til the end’. Otherwise, do as the story implies, “remember her as the hero she was”.
Anyways I support Saurfang for all the typical reasons. I want the Warcraft 3 honorable, redeemed, Horde back. Saurfang seems to be the only bone those of us who want that back are gonna be thrown, so I am forced to take it - or quit the game/drop out.
I’d actually go as far as to say she was a controversial figure in politics since her husband was a state governor. She is a career lawyer/politician, and loathed by as many people that genuinely respect her.
It is sort of spiteful toward the writers to say “your storyline sucks, and I don’t want to play it, please give me another” especially when the storyline didn’t totally imply that you were “siding with saurfang”. People hated the idea of MOP2.0 and siding with Saurfang so much that it was rejected before they even confirmed that that was actually going on. I’m not even sure that was their original intent; but blizzard seems to me to be open to criticism and fan input more than some others, so they just gave fans what they asked for to placate them.
“We don’t like the direction Sylvanas has been taken, we are gonna show Blizzard how much we hate it by… supporting every single thing they write her to do, demanding we get a choice to specifically support and be loyal to her at every crossroad. This will show them we really HATE what they are making her do!”
It’s not neccesarily support for Sylvanas, but it’s lack of support what the other characters are doing, or what people suppose they are doing. But like you are saying, I don’t think that communicates the idea that you actually don’t like what Sylvanas is doing either. Whether or not that is understood by blizzard idk.
I support Sylvanas because I’ve loved her character ever since WC3–she’s one of my favorite characters in the entire franchise, next to Illidan and Arthas.
I think you meant *Saurfang, if you want to complain about his “treachery”, do it elsewhere, this is a neutral discussion between both parties. So do well to respect the Saurfang group as much as you’d want them to respect your group.
No, this is not a neutral discussion because you said to explain why we’re supporting the other candidate. One of my reasons is that Sylvanas isn’t a traitor and Saurfang is.
I didn’t say anything disrespectful, I don’t need you policing my posts, thanks.
It is, do you see anyone else whining about “traitor” Saurfang or “evil” Sylvanas? That’s just petty, go to another thread if you want to vent about Saurfang, no one here cares. We’re having a mutual discussion, were not telling other people that their character is wrong or bad.
I liked Saurfang before this mess too. Just because I’m a hardcore Sylvanas fangirl doesn’t mean I hate Saurfang. I just hate the way he’s being used as a foil. I really, really enjoyed Sylvanas and Saurfang working together in A Good War and wanted to see more of that instead of division.
Saurfang rattled his axe against his armor. “For the Horde,” he said.
She smiled at that. “For the Horde.”
That coupled with her inspiring him with her FTH wail in the cinematic… Oh what could have been.
This perfectly encapsulates how I feel about this storyline. I enjoyed both of these characters very much before this atrocity of a narrative. Now I’m just exhausted with the shambles they’ve been reduced to.
“People like Sylvanas because they like to be evil.”
“I support Saurfang because I want the option to be a good guy.”
You called Sylvanas evil and Saurfang good. You’re not wrong. I said Saurfang betrayed the Horde. I’m not wrong, either. I’m not whining for saying “Traitorfang.” I’m telling you that I’m siding with Sylvanas because Saurfang factually betrayed the Horde by working with the Alliance during war time between the two factions.
Some people are obviously okay with Saurfang doing this, which is why they support him. I don’t, which is why I support Sylvanas.
I’ll give you an example of whining:
“Blizzard RUINED the Horde! I’m quitting the game if next patch the evil beach Sylvanas isn’t dead! The story is so full of crap! IT IS SOOO AWFUL.”
I’ll give you another example of whining:
“Blizzard writers are stupid, just like all those a-head orc players on the ded gaem forums! Don’t they know Sylvanas is the last classic Horde character??? Now she’s about to be the next raid boss just because they want to promote AnduinXBaineXSaurfang! WTF??? Is Anduin about to become the next democratically elected Peacechief of the Horde in World of WARCraft? HELLO? I’m about to freaking quit the game because of this crappy pile of crap the Blizzturds call ‘story!’ FIX IT, YOU IDIOTS!”
You see the difference? You asked for respectful reasoning, and that’s what I gave. I didn’t insult anyone. Also, this can’t be a neutral discussion if you’re asking people to describe why they’re siding with one side over another. You’re literally telling people to pick a side, then getting onto others for providing reasoning as to why they picked a side.
What you meant to say is that this discussion is a respectful discussion about who we’re siding with and why, not a neutral discussion. I’d advise you not to police people’s posts if you want a respectful discussion.
I feel like most threads end up being about this lately. As I saw a mention of my views on this, I will add my 2 cents.
I choose Sylvanas. But my major reasons to support her are not on your list.
I don’t see my main reason to side with her:
I think she is espousing a logical position for the Horde.
I would not say I totally agree with all her actions or philosophies. But I agree with most of her stated positions and goals for the Horde.
I think Sylvanas has been a creature of duty most of her existence. Goal driven. Doing what she feels must be done.
I am a big supporter of the notion that Genn’s assault on the Warchief at Stormheim let loose the dogs of war. I feel Alliance commanders attempting the assassination of the Horde Warchief over a personal vendetta, and using the Alliance military to do it, is crossing a threshold.
The Alliance and Horde fought together as allies at the Broken Shore. Genn was the first to strike, and he aimed to kill.
Saurfang conceded she was right about the Alliance’s threat. He was all for her war - it was her execution of it that drove him away in disgust. To be fair, she out right told him she wanted him to plan the War of Thorns precisely because she did not want to sully the victory with her craziness. She was totally upfront about what she thought would happen if she planned the assault - people were going to be pissed. I see her honesty in mentioning that as telling.
She also leads from the ground. She is the only Horde hero on the roster who can stand toe to toe with the Alliance Heroes. (Thrall being AFK). And she does. She is on the field, using her skills, for the Horde.
I also think she knows more about the afterlife than any other being in either Faction, and more than even she can comprehend. I think she knows of a great evil in the shadows that she can barely fathom. And she wants to be its master. Forget about existence on this plane - I think she might be on to something about the afterlife too. I trust her more than Odyn or Bwonsamdi or Eyir.
TLDR: My reasons are Sylvanas is knowledgeable, experienced, capable, and has positions I agree with.
The definition of “evil”: profoundly immoral and wicked.
Immoral. You tell me? She doesn’t conform to accepted standards of morality on Azeroth according to what most people see in the narrative. Heck, most fans of the character seem to enjoy that aspect of her.
Wicked. Is genocide a wicked act? Is human experimentation?
Therefore by definition, she is considered “evil”.
SUBJECTIVELY bertrayed the Horde, it’s not fact. Zekhan doesnt think he betrayed the Horde, Baine doesnt think he betrayed the Horde, heck in fact, it doesn’t seem like anyone is concerned or cares about his werabouts. It’s not stated by the general people of the Horde that he betrayed them.
The only person who has even called him a traitor is Sylvanas, therefore it has not even been firmly established yet whether or not he “factually” betrayed the Horde.
You insulted a character that people are supporting. Which is not what we’re doing.
Yeah, but I’m not telling people to debate why their side is better than the other, just why they chose it.
It’s supposed to be both. Refering to the character as “Traitorfang”, as you so delecately put it is not repsectful, simple as that. I’m going to police whatever posts I see as antagonistic and likely to start a debate between sides, like insulting a character. If you wanna say “Saurfang is a traitor” then respectfully say that you feel that Saurfang betrayed the Horde. We’re throwing childish labels at characters we don’t like.
I wanted to avoid this topic… And this is why. Every topic boils down to this.
Sylvanas = Ebul
If you want to call Sylvanas evil, than calling Saurfang “Traitorfang” is the same.
They are both just biased insults and name calling based on your perspectives. You calling her evil and acting as if it is a fact is the same as him calling Saurfang a traitor.
I certainly do not see Sylvanas as evil.
I disagree. I don’t think her actions were evil.
I think the Alliance should think twice before doing as they please. I think Genn was wrong. Anduin was wrong to trust him. Tyrande was wrong to give the Gilneans safe harbor. And the citizens suffer for the mistakes of their leaders.
In context of the story, I do not see Sylvanas as evil. Many others do.
So if you invite discussion while damning the other side, expect a little of the same in return.
A Horde citizen is missing their family members because Sylvanas mass murdered and mass enslaved them. There’s no way any Horde citizen is hoping for a Sylvanas victory, that isn’t Forsaken.
It’s not, treachery is based on perspective while evil is a constant.
However wrong or “evil” the Alliance was, does not change the definition of evil. Two wrongs don’t make a right. The Alliance attacked Sylvanas in Stormheim, that was an evil act. When Sylvanas retaliated by burning teldrassil, that was an evil act.
When Japan attacked Pearl Harbor killing hundreds, it was an evil act. When the U.S. responded by nuking two populated cities killing thousands of people, that was also an evil act.
Evil is only subjective to the definition people have given it.