No but the Alliance need their payback.
You think Tyrande is going to stop?
We forgive you shtick is the worse thing they can do in this expansion.
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I honestly agree. The word “Honor” has been chucked around this expansion so much already, that it’s kinda lost it’s meaning at this point. I mean, what Is it now? It feels like any JA in a red tabard can run into battle screaming “For Honor!”, but why we’re not fighting a war of Honor, we’re fighting a war of annihilation. The only time it has been used correctly this entire expansion was in the Old Soldier cinematic when Saurfang was unhappy about Teldrasil. Any other time it’s used it’s when we’re blighting towns and killing civilians. It’s not even just Saurfang, the term itself has been compromised.
People think Sylvanas is acting out of character because her actions in the past were more logical and contained to small events were she’s usually just taking advantage of a situation in front of her. I think most people recognize that she has done horrible things in search of vengeance, conquest, and survival. But if her motivation for survival has been her biggest driver since Cata then the actions she’s taken starting in BtS are antithetical to that as she’s been pretty reckless getting the Horde started in a war, burning down a city full of civilians, and snuffing out opposition within the Horde. She is intelligent enough to know that those actions, especially as Warchief, will put a giant target on her back. She watched it play out with Garrosh.
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Last time she took a hostage she didn’t set her on fire either.
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So basically she’s acting out of character by being dumb?
I’d agree Blizzard doesn’t want us to think she’s dumb, but every lead character is at risk of being dumb for the purpose of the plot.
I.e. Sylvanas trusted a Dreadlord as her lieutenant, and it nearly lost her her kingdom.
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Sorry to dissapoint you, but we’re broke both figuratively and literally. What other way I could this story possibly end? Neither faction can completely wipe out the other and I don’t think the writers are capable of concluding this expansion that can somewhat satisfy both sides, let alone 1 of the factions. They’d have to do something that’ literally impossible.
It’s unfair that the Alliance can’t exact its’ justice twice, but like, what else is there? I just hope they pause the faction war arc after this expansion is over and save it for another time. They clearly just weren’t prepared to do it right this time around either resorting to the same Horde villain batting that they use last time we had faction war narrative.
As an elf that wants to be a vampire, it seems like a good idea to support the undead elf.
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These were two of my favourite Horde characters prior to this expansion, and Blizzard is making me choose between them while making both of them kind of suck in different ways.
It’s like they had a writer’s retreat with the topic: “how to best alienate the Horde player base.”
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I support Saurfang because as much as I like what Sylvanas and the Forsaken bring to the table as a whole, the actual genocide part of Teldrassil is a bitter pill I just can’t swallow. The Horde is not supposed to be evil, never was supposed to be, but the current writers didn’t seem to get that memo and just have the characters I’ve loved for years, way longer than I’ve actually played the game, do the worst things for laughable reasons.
Sylvanas isn’t evil. She’s just murdering thousands of innocents in order to kill hope itself, while actively working to hasten the death of the planet. For reasons!
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I’m a vanilla player.
A friend convinced me to play World of Warcraft because we roleplayed orcs on a game called Graal Online. He sent me this picture,
https://i.imgur.com/4FJ4laB.jpg
Now, I join WoW and I get to know the characters and I see that the Horde is Noble with a capital N. Only the Forsaken stand apart, but it’s understood they’re lying to the Horde and keeping their evil secret, so I can deal with that. Over the years we see tons of very neat things with the noble savage archetype, but the one that sticks out to me the most is the quest I got from Thrall at level 60.
"Save Magni Bronzebeard’s daughter."
It blew my mind. Keep in mind that I played on pvp or RP-PVP my entire WoW experience until two years ago. But here we are, going to save the dwar fking’s daughter not to kidnap her. Not to make him owe us a debt.
We do it purely because it was the right thing to do.
The Horde was litered with quests that reinforced this persona from vanilla through Cataclysm, though Cataclysm marked the breaking off point where the Horde started to just… be villainous. There were still heroic moments, but I was very uncool with Reghar Earthfury and Garrosh Hellscream.
I unsubbed.
A long time passed and my friend tells me about Mists of Pandaria. Now, I am not a huge fan of anthropomorphic animals. But he swears the story is more than Kung-Fu Panda. So, I buy the expansion and boot it up. Mists nailed home basically everyhting I love about the Horde. Doing the right thing because it’s the right thing.
Or doing the wrong thing because it’s the right thing.
We betrayed our traitor warchief and brought him low. We nominated Vol’jin as Warchief. The Horde seemed to be at a new high, since Cataclysm had brought it so low. I went into WoD expecting more of the same. WoD was cool, and did a lot of heroism for our Horde, but killing orcs and demons bored me. When Blizzard stopped working on the expansion, I stopped playing.
Legion is my second favorite expansion because I loved the class focus, but Legion marks the beginning of the end of the Horde as I knew it. Vol’jin dies to some demon and Sylvanas becomes Warchief. The Traitor Warchief lies to us, saying she intends to avenge Vol’jin, then uses us to try to get more slave Valkyr to increase her Forsaken army. She is never seen again the rest of the expansion making it clear she did not and does not respect or care about Vol’jin, or us.
This is quadrupled down on at Teldrassil and doubled down at Lordaeron.
Never youm mind that Sylvanas is already betraying the Horde hardcore in BTS by mass murdering the Forsaken, and intentionally and willfully killing the planet. She then goes and leads us in a lie’s campaign to capture Teldrassil, only to result in making us party to her insanity. THEN she mass murders the Horde and raises them as skeleton slaves. She doesn’t even have the respect to honor the Forsaken cultural cornerstone of free will.
She leaves them enslaved proving that the Horde means absolutely nothing to her unless it’s as bodies to keep her alive.
I hated Saurfang not immediately challenging her to Makgora and killing her. I hated every single Horde leader not immediately killing her repeatedly until Final Permanent Death at Lordaeron. But I get it. Blizzard thinks they’re writing a book instead of an MMO. This story would work for a book.
It does not work for an MMO.
I’m a vanilla Horde player. I’m built on years of the noble savage characterization. Sylvanas doesn’t have an ounce of nobility in her. But Saurfang does. Saurfang has been around since vanilla. I memorized his quote as a kid and would yell it in PVP.
“I am He who watches They. I am the Fist of Retribution, That Which Does Quell the Recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgment?”
How radass is that? This guy was 100% in Thrall’s corner, and so was I. And Sylvanas was not and is not.
Saurfang can signal the return to actual Horde values, like Vol’jin did.
Now Sylvanas wants to hunt and disappear Saurfang?
I am Saurfang.
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She was heroically trying to save them from dying of clapping in Before the Storm.
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I support Saurfang because I find it hard to believe there’s a storyline of supporting Sylvanas’ methods and rationale that I would enjoy. Saurfang, while he has his own flaws, is the lesser of two evils for my enjoyment.
Yes, and it is lazy and annoying every time it happens.
She’s always entered into alliances of convenience. That at least has been consistent.
Varimathras was almost convincing as having betrayed the Legion in WC3 though. Sylvanas had no way of knowing that Balnazaar wouldn’t really die. And acted like there was no going back if he killed another Nathrezim. He had his uses for the forsaken.
But we will see how it plays out now that the shoe is on the other foot now that there is a dreadlord in the Alliance.
I am not venting my frustrations at all - I am merely explaining the reasons why I hold such an opinion which, I dare say, is unpopular.
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I don’t need to hear the whole “raar Saurfangs a traitor”, I want to hear “I support Sylvanas because…”. I hear that enough on these forums and then it just goes back and forth, “Raar Sylvanas is evil and must be stopped”, “Saurfang killed horse soldiers”, “Sylvanas killed Horde soldiers” and foes on and on. I would know, i’ve been the instigator in some of these arguments myself. I wanna hear the motivations behind both parties.
So far most people agree that the problem isn’t the characters themselves, but how they’re being portrayed.
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Saurfang wasn’t “okay” with how Teldrassil went down. Did you not see the Old Soldier cinematic? Or read A Good War? He was pissed that Sylvanas went off script and killed civilians.
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Not sure what you mean about the Alliance getting their vengeance sated twice.
But why in the world would the Alliance ever trust the Horde to work with them again?
Sylvanas could easily abandon them or betray them any time she would like? Exactly like in Legion.
Unless Saurfang takes over which would then again mean the Alliance has to forgive the whole horde and blame one person as the sole cause of everything.
This narrative is getting old. Real old.