Why do you hate Voidform? #removevoidform

Legacy of the Void needs to be baseline at this point. It’s just too required and has been for a long time. Free up that end tier slot. Dark Ascension is likely fine as is at that point. Need a rework on StM badly and definitely not that crap from the Alpha. that’s just doubling down on already bad design.

StM needs to be something that’s not so massively punishing to the player. And doing something to make it punishing on the healers in your group is equally awkward. Something that allows for increased insanity generation that has a short CD if you kill in a window, but a long CD if you miss the window allows the cooldown to remain relevant for both long fights and dungeons with lots of shorter fights.

Giving us a talent that allows the Twins Painful Touch passive would be very very welcome for M+. Even if you were to take away voidform right now and just give us some kind of shadow orbs, having to dot packs in dungeons is just way too slow, and mind sear doesn’t cut it. I think spreading the dots on a void form transition is way more interesting. Shadow Crash just doesn’t cut it sadly. Even for dungeons, spirits just overtakes it, and overtakes it.

Finally, the void form issue is mostly with the exponential scaling that occurs during the length of the voidform. Transition some of the power of scaling away from the form. There’s no reason it has to remain a stacking haste buff. Giving you empowered abilities, or several other options would make voidform feel meaningful enough, and then granting you lingering insanity after to keep the power up outside the form, and increase the transition could work. Essentially the issue is right now that void form is just a stronger benefit of base form, so being out of it just isn’t meaningful. Give the priest a mechanic that allows them to start fights entering void form, and then balancing the power between being in the form and out of the form would for me, solve a lot of the misery in feeling like base form is just a stepping stone with no upside.

That’s my view on it. I’m not a numbers person, I couldn’t tell you the best values to apply where or how to make those numbers work. But my thoughts are this in short:

Mind Sear should spread dots after a void form, talent most likely.

Insanity should be something you start the fight with and lose over time, allowing the cycle to begin at the top.

Transition the benefit of void form away from exponential scaling during the form, and into that scaling outside of the form. Grant a different benefit for being in the form, ex: empowered spells.

Voidform baseline is a shorter cast and can be cast at 70/100 insanity baseline.

StM shouldn’t punish the player or healers so drastically via damage. Punish it via cooldowns or some other mechanic. Give the player a way to mitigate or reduce that punishment through gameplay.

Legacy of the Void made baseline

  • So faster/no ramp up needed.

StM: Makes you stay in Void Form Longer

  • Doesn’t address fundamental problem.

Spread Dots while in Void form

  • Doesn’t address fundamental problem.
  • Sounds like Void Form is too much of a hassle to keep up cause you have very little benieft.
  • Doesn’t address fundamental problem.

Summary:

Sounds like if you go into Void Form, you should have a damage boost but not by much. Also, you are struggling to keep it going for a little gain.

Still nothing to fix PvP issues where if you get stunned/silence after going into Void Form, you just lost access to your big damage.

Current:
The fundamental of having to ramp up to get into Void Form only to ramp up in damage while in Void Form is horrible design in current game.

Suggested:
Make Ramp up time less to instantly go into Void Form, then not scale damage so your Void Form is practically worthless and unrewarding.

Just remove Void form.

Or how about this.

Just remove Insanity mechanic and instead make Void Form an ability that costs 5 Shadow Orbs to go into and last 10 sec. While in this form, all your Mind abilities are void empowered and do x% more damage.
Note: Mind = Mind Blast, Mind Spike, Mind Flay etc.

This functions like Demon Hunter Demonic ability but again, its shut down by a silence/stun/cc of any kind.

We cant Death Coil / castable fear to start popping damage, we are key targets to focus on.
We cant kite with slows and nova, we are key targets to get focus on.

See the pattern?
If we are tied to an ability that becomes useless when used, whats the point?

Make it a set temp damage buff via Demonic suggestion but have that be a talent choice for those that like that empowered play style.
But keep constant damage via DoT play style or Burst with Dotless for the rest of us.

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I don’t think you read what I said at all or just absolutely dismissed it. Maybe you need to better define your “fundamental problems.” because I identified mine, and you ignored them to just say that my suggestions don’t address them.

And balancing pvp vs pve is a separate issue entirely. There’s absolutely no reason to bring in pvp and say “Look, this does nothing here” when there’s an entire different set of rules and talents just for pvp to begin with. Let’s try to focus on just one thing at a time here.

Just saying “Doesn’t address fundamental problem.” with zero elaboration isn’t constructive to a discussion. It’s just dismissive.

Yeah we did dismiss it. We can’t stomach being a petri-dish for a concept that should of been part of a new Class, rather than pushed down the throats of people who had played for 15+ years.

I liked the Priest Class when in Cataclysm I had to try and maintain Dark Archangel. I loved it even more when I could Mind Melt and unleash a “Mind Shock” that nearly obliterated whatever I was fighting. Was it broken? Sure. But was it (that pesky keyword that keeps being forgotten) FUN?

Oh you better believe it was. Might not of been able to beat a Mage, but being able to burn their mana away and shut them down in Cataclysm, so they were a walking target dummy? That too was fun. Especially with how broken Frost Mage was in Cataclysm.

Mists of Pandaria introduced Surge of Darkness which allowed Mind Spike to become a useful tool at times. I dug that as it was a natural extension of what the Class had stood for, from the start and embellished the design.

In WoD a new playstyle that was controversial. Clarity of Power. But the nice thing about Clarity of Power? If you disliked it you didn’t have to use it. That was what made it an acceptable addition. You didn’t feel like you were forced to use it if you didn’t wish to.

Then in Legion instead of embellishing and adding to the class, the Priest Lead went. “Hur hur. Too much like Aff. Lock!” which was a total BS argument, and then ripped down 14 years of design for what one must assume was personal ego. Now here we are 4 years into being tortured by his crappy design, and what do we keep saying?

“We want our Shadow Priests back. The way they were before your unneeded intrusion into our hobby.”

And for some reason he and his proxies seem to lack the integrity to give a quality product. So instead they double down on wildly unpopular themes, as if they simply want to keep pissing the players off.

Besides. Tigole said far nastier things to the Developers of Everquest. Be glad I’m not as verbose.

12 Likes

Fundamental problem with Void Form / Insanity:

The way it works is you are either broken and unplayable because its balanced around top usage of Void Form up time. So until you have the proper stats and ideal environment to use (Raids) then your always climbing up hill with nothing at the top to greet you. Its unrewarding and limiting.

If blizz scaled it down to be usable while in low stats and in many different forms of play then it will out scale everything and be nerfed to the ground.

Your suggestions don’t fix that. All it would do it make it so Void Form just doesn’t matter and only hinder you to spend time casting it to get into because you get nothing from it.

You cant fix it.

Its one of 3 options.

  1. Too weak
  2. Too strong
  3. Nill / pointless

So get rid of it.

Edit:

This would work if we had other abilities that let us kite / control / immune to cc effects while we are in void form.

But we are not Mages or Warlocks.
Because of the vary nature of how the class as a whole plays and the tool kits we have, that’s not something they will give us.

So it simply wont work.

6 Likes

And also in terms of Class Fantasy?

More Dark Naaru, Cosmic / Space themed magic ala Black Holes, or Vampiric / Nathrezim oriented Mind Magic. Less Tentacles popping out of us. Seriously. The Old Gods are Dead and the Legion is defeated. Warlocks and Shadow Priests need to have a more fundamental point they can draw their powers from that is not tied to a one or two expansion themed villain.

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I firmly disagree with this. “The way it works is you are either broken and unplayable because its balanced around top usage of Void Form up time” is not helpful nor is it an accurate examination of shadow. It offers no relative points to compare to and does no legwork other than using hyperbole and muddying the waters of the conversation.

At what POINTS are there problems. Where does the problem go wrong. Are there comparisons to be made between being in void form and out of it? If so, why? And you once again create a false dichotomy. It CAN absolutely be something other than too strong and too weak. It can absolutely be middle of the road.

But we can’t even have a discussion on that when you won’t define what you mean by these things and won’t go into any details on the situation. My suggestions are based around the issues that come up when PLAYING the class. They are based on observation and discussion.

I don’t think Shadow is for you. Just going to reiterate that. And that’s ok friend. You want something out of the class that it just isn’t going to give you. Cheers.

Translation:

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you know its so funny because he only played 1 week of shadow yet he’s telling us to reroll.

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Would you like to contribute to the discussion in a meaningful way, or just keep trolling?

Would you like to stop attacking everyone who disagrees with you by telling them to reroll?

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Shadow is not for YOU.

Void Form is your cup of tea good sir.

I am a proud Shadow Priest. I have spent a great amount of time learning and enjoying my class throughout the years.

The class can be played, but it is a hollow version of what it once was and there is no reason for that. The change was for change sake, nothing that was needing to be fixed.

They changed Shadow into Void. It is no longer Shadow.

You can enjoy it as you like, but you would be wrong to think the current play style is something that is a better game play design compared to pre legion. You are not conniving anyone of that.

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Actually my priest has 112 days played. It’s just 2 days played at 120. But not at 110, which was a lot higher. How much time did you play in BFA and Legion on your priest?

Shadow = voidform right now, so if voidform is what shadow is sounds like it is absolutely for me and not for you.

How about you just wait for MoP Classic or WoD Classic or whatever state of the game you want to go back to.

Sounds like we’ll just be best served in reminding Blizzard that one player is not the community, and pushing for this crappy ability to be deleted and removed, because most of us absolutely despise it.

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You’re right. YOU are not the community. Neither is any one person here. IN FACT most of the people here DON’T EVER PLAY. Seems like there’s zero community here. Just a lot of hot air and wasted breath.

so thats a lie because you clearly stated that your priest was 112 and it took you 2 days to reach 120 this week. as you stated below.

you said you were 112 at the beginning of this week and it took you 2 days to reach 120. stop lying please.

EDIT: also you played your priest for 112 days this expansion and only was able to gain 2 lvls (from 110-112) then all of a sudden it took you 2 days to gain 8 levels. again you’re not being consistent. something doesn’t add up.

3 Likes

For now you are correct sir.

I am confident that if shadow doesn’t get fixed for SL then it will by next Xpack.
Its on its last leg in terms of Void Form.

It just doesn’t work with how the game works. 2 different worlds don’t play nice together.

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How is that a lie? I have a total of 112 days played on my priest. I was level 112 earlier this week and played for a total played time of 2 days. In that time I have gotten up to 443 ilvl, I have worked on raising my legendary cloak to R5, I have started doing M+ runs for gear, and LFR for gear and an idea of mechanics. I will continue to upgrade my gear and get to a level where I can run higher tier Mythics and raid with the guild I joined.

You can clearly see that I’ve been an active player for a while. Like, do you really just not care at all about the situation?

Yea it’s called confirmation bias. But sure, let’s just call people that disagree with you a shill. But wait. Didn’t I say that there were issues with talents, and problems with M+ viability? GASP Oh no! if I’m just a Blizzard shill patsy whatever pointless deflection you made up, why would I do that?

Maybe I’m just a player that really likes the class, and very unhappy angry people that don’t play come spend their time on the forums while those that enjoy the class actually play the game… oh no…