Check my edit. I am curious to see if anyone read it.
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you gotta pick a stand sirâŚyou canât flip flopâŚyou said what you said
Also doesnât change this
which again brings up the question why are you here?
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Iâm not sure you understand what âcherry-pickedâ means.
Cherry-picking means to take a part of a whole response and only respond to that part.
As in my previous post, if you want to refute me, respond to the entire post rather than just choosing a single statement. I already told you I explained the part you just cherry-picked. Context is important. If you donât want to do that, then Iâm just going to ignore you because I have better things to do than keep having a back-and-forth.
Letâs not forget that three cherry picked statements were quoted from different posts and then spliced together out of orderâŚ
okay Iâm willing to move forward but could you please explain thisâŚ
and answer me why are you here? what do you want ? you obviously stated that you donât care about shadow so why are you here?
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In regards to âVoid Form is not going away, deal with itâ
I wonder, why did they even add Void Form in the beginning?
Because they were not thinking about how it would play. They just wanted the âFantasyâ to be unique and distinct from Affliction.
That doesnât mean they CANT revert the changes. They have done so with the Shaman back to WoD style on alpha.
Now I admit its a bit more work to move to a more of a WoD style for shadow and then make adjustments from that standpoint. But I am very confident that is a much more easily and time efficient route and it opens up options.
Looking at how Void Form / Insanity works at a base level, they are severely limited in what they can do because of the unlimited potential of scaling. Thus is best to not touch the spec and leave it sub par. Because any positive adjustments can have crazy outcomes and be EN all over again. They do not want that to happen again. So as long as Void Form in its current iteration exists, it can not be made better, only worse.
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Nobody is actually claiming itâs not mathematically possible to balance the spec; theyâre claiming itâs not going to happen in this game, with this design team, with the current and historical model of infrequent tuning updates.
You seem to be arguing that there is a game design team somewhere out there that could keep voidform balanced on an ongoing basis. And I agree with you! The problem is that that team is not working on shadow design at Blizzard currently. So itâs not really relevant that theoretically itâs possible to make it work smoothly.
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It could be said that it IS balanced, depending on what they would considered balanced. Thatâs another problem entirely though, of whether or not they feel that the spec works, is balanced, and meets their criteria for what they want out of the spec.
The issue is I donât think ANYONE, not even the few people in this thread that enjoy playing Shadow right now, would consider the spec to be balanced and in a good state based on what we want. And certainly would not like the way they have chosen to balance the spec at current.
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What I would like is for them to acknowledge that the class (at least 2 out of the 3 specs at this point, I donât play disc so I donât know how theyâre doing) need some sort of help in the 5-man and Visions aspect of the game, AND that they have allocated resources to try to fix it. Anything else (such as the class reveal that we got) means that nope, theyâre not even going to try. I would bank on the class remaining in much the same state as it is today; now is the time to pull out the trial 110 characters, find another class that you can enjoy, check out the youtube shadowlands videos on any classes that might interest you, and (with the xp boost) level it up so that youâre ready on day 1 of Shadowlands with a class that youâll probably enjoy.
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I mean, I have my backup. My DK is getting Shadowmourne in a few more weeks and Iâll save him to enjoy some leveling content when they squish the stats. I always have an alt I play on. Last expansion and this one it was Monk. It will be Unholy DK next expansion due to the theme and content.
If you havenât guessed, story identity and theme tend to hold a lot of sway for me.
Just a friendly reminder to keep checking on the Official Alpha Priest FEEDBACK post. Blizz might not be reading all our discussion about the state of the spec but they are definitely monitoring that post. So please make sure to visit it and leave a like on the comments you agree with to show your support for it.
This is a way to vocalize our opinions even if we canât post on it.
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In the four years history of Voidform we had anything from extremely long and strong rampup to short rampup with little value. None of these did work to an acceptable stage.
The ground for your âisnât impossible to balanceâ is pretty thin when we had values across the full spectrum of where tuning can go.
Voidforms gameplay is dull, and has been dull since itâs creation. All the âfunâ came from the a single factor: The ever increasing haste, the change of speed going along with it, and trying to keep staying at that high value.
There are two things tied to VFs rampup: the damage and the gameplay.
Tuning the damage to cap out early is hardly a problem, the problem comes from the lack of gameplay.
The whole Voidform rotation has three phases: 1) Out of Voidform 2) Ramp-up to enjoyable haste 3) play at enjoyable haste and ramp-up further. 1) is boring. 2) is most likely boring. 3) is the âfun stateâ of the spec and technically should last a decent amount of time
Everyone takes LotV because it reduces the dullest gameplay phase 1)
Everyone takes LI because it makes the dull rotation during phase 1) and phase 2)
more acceptable.
If you apply that to the three VF phases: phase 1) should be the shortest (right now on live it can go as low as a single MB crit), phase 2) should still be shorter, while phase 3) should last you the longest (e.g. 50%+ of the time)
Encounter length dictates how long the full ramp-up cycle can last. When world content, dungeon trash and now Torghast give you rather short fight length, you now have to put the three phases of VF gameplay into this relatively short duration.
So as an example of a more extreme case, where phase 1) is take out (e.g. VER gives you 100 insanity, would look something like this: 10 seconds of a 2% haste per second, followed by ~20 seconds of high haste gameplay, which continues to ramp up at 2% per second. Yeah, you have speedy gameplay, but you also get a peak haste value of 60%.
A more Nightholdy example: If you take a 40 second second rampup at 1%, you get your âgood gameplayâ at 20 seconds, get to play for 20 seconds, but the peak haste only reaches 40%.
The simplest solution would be to put a cap on the haste rampup, but you are basically crushing the core fantasy/foundation of Voidform: âitâs getting crazier and crazierâ the longer you stay in it.
TL:DR: You can not condense VFs rampup without crushing itâs core gameplay idea.
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thank you so much well siad and explained.
things melt before i even have enough insanity to use Voidform and thats with Legacy of the void.
the mechanic simply doesnât work unless the encounter is long. and even with these long encounter there is mechanics that will force you to lose voidform because otherwise raid bosses would be target dummies.
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Not moderation, friendly advice of how to better express your opinions so that people listen 
Like I said, you make a lot of great points that are getting ignored.
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Why do you guys argue with Amideus? Look at his profile. He hasnt done anything with Shadow this expansion outside of a handful of LFRs?
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And yet still more than the person who started this thread. Is there a point here?
He has a right to his own opinion and if he wants to challenge the overwhelming outcry concerning the absolute hatred towards Void Form then he can.
But he is wasting his breath as he is just a drop in the ocean at this point.
Heck, have you checked out the EU forums? They are saying the same things only it looks like a lot more people are engaged and vocal about it and all hate it lol.
The one thing I take issue with is when he says to me and other people that Shadow Priest is not for us. I take a BIG Issue with that. I played this class/spec for over a decade. I chose and played it for a reason. Blizzard has destroyed that reason and therefore the class/spec for me and many others alike. I want that restored, Iâm not just going to accept a beating like an abused puppy. Forget that. I am going to do all I can to make my case and explain why the current abomination that is Void Form needs to go.
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I feel like shadow was almost nearly perfect at the end of HFC. There was multiple ways you could build your spec / play your spec depending on the fight.
I have enjoyed shadow since I started playing back in wrath.
I didnât play much of it in legion cuz I quit, but It was a change I didnât like as it was not as enjoyable, but it was still playable. BFA just feels like⌠poop for the class.
Give us back options on how to play like Cata, Mop, & wod
Go dots or mind spike & weaving, but also allow you to opt in to void form rather than it being baseline for shadow as a playstyle.
Allow us to opt in to older play styles like shadow orbs
OG priest back in wrath with auspicious spirits
Allow those who like voidform to opt into with other talents that make sense like stm
This would open up different style of gameplay for the class.
Keep shadowmend, but give us a option to heal and move like we use to be able to with renew, but also not take you out of shadow form.
Like I understand they donât dps being able to outheal a healer⌠of course not
But give us the ability to fight on our own.
I donât like almost dying, because I ran out of mana on shadowmend and canât heal myself without running.
We use to be nukes in pvp. and when someone was on us we could atleast bubble and renew to get us back into the fight. cuzâ as of now you have to stand still to heal and itâs a poopy situation when you have a melee on you and no way escape and heal rather than standing there taking dmg after your bubble bursts⌠trying to heal
They took away what made the class playable in pvp. besides being food for melee. Iâm not saying we should be untouchable, but I at least I had the chance to live.
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Having Shadowmend is an issue, hereâs why:
- To have the ability to be âtankyâ with passive damage reduction in Shadow Form (Pre Legion btw) and the ability to shield yourself and heal up while passive reducing damage is way to strong.
We should keep our passive damage reduction from Shadow Form and be able to shield for a decent amount of damage absorption. But to heal up, we should be forced to sacrifice our passive damage reduction via Shadow Form by dropping it to heal up. Doing this should allow a lot more healing capability before going oom as you are risking more damage intake and interruptions.- On the note of interruptions, I want the ability to choose what magic school to get locked out. I should be able to choose if I want to bait an interruption with holy spells via healing in order to freely burst with shadow. Or bait a shadow school interruption to be able to freely cast healing. With shadowmend, you get locked out of both.
Everything else we agree on, but remove shadowmend and give us Flash heal and Renew (maybe PROM? but thatâs wishful thinking, but id love to trigger that and go back into Shadow Form and see it bouncing around healing while I am still in Shadow form),
Edit:
I used to love dropping Shadow Form and applying PROM and then going back Shadow Form when I know my party is about to take some damage that I can help out with by choosing to pre apply PROM and force a bounce to someone that needs it via Shadow Word: Death damage feedback and see it bounce away and then often it finds its way back to me and I SW:D it again to keep it bouncing everywhere.
I used to Que up for daily Heroic 5 mans as a healer in Shadow Spec and because of my Vampiric Embrace, Shields, Dropping in and out of Shadow form applying Renew/Prom and getting mana & bouncing PROM with SW:D + a 4th DPS or sometimes a 5th DPS (If tank was in DPS spec) we would just bum rush the entire dungeon. It was really fun. I want to ability to do that again. That to me is a great use of a Shadow Priestâs game play / utility.
Quite often I did so much damage (someone that doesnât know better often remarks saying that the healer is doing more damage then the DPS) that I out DPS all the other DPS and pull threat from Tank. So i ended up doing the most DPS, Most healing and took most of the damage.
Ah good times lol.
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I never liked having to drop out of shadow form, but Iâd take it over shadowmend for sure. I like the old school style back in wrath, cata was fun, mop was okâŚ, wod I felt it was more of a balance that allowed for a more complex rotation.