Why do you guys like old AV so much?

If blizzard feels npcs in q.v. are to hard, I would gladly accept them in their nerfed state.

It’s a compromise but it’s still better than nothing.

The answer is really easy 90% of the time, they didn’t play it. For the remainder they forget that everyone hated it, it was one of the FIRST major QQ crapstorm for blizzard. It was horribly grindy and long but it “felt epic” which was basically the result of half the raid fishing, leveling or screwing off doing nothing in strife so nothing ever got done.

Ok… then bring them back.


Old AV literally put the WAR in WARcraft.

It was the absolute closest thing to what you’d actually picture as a war between the Horde and Alliance. Large numbers on each side, large amounts of NPC grunts, tug of war battles, occasional ultimate units and cavalry/ground assaults. It is honestly the type of PvP I thought the game was going to always be about, but instead everything changed to small scale and arena, leaving those of us that liked these epic type battles with literally nothing.

AV was not meant to be a quick race as evidenced by how good the rewards are. You were supposed to slowly work towards them, which you could do by joining AV and playing for awhile and getting a bit of rep. When racing happens nonstop, you can hit exalted in a week…good luck hitting exalted in a week doing WSG or AB rep.

I’ll maintain that I think there needs to be both versions of AV available on classic, which means 1.7 or below, and 1.12.


I could care less. I wouldn’t mind the old AV just to see Korrak again. But I also know that old AV will not have what it is that you all want. You blame the nerfs for creating the AV zerg that we use today, even though pservers prove this to be false. If we had 1.5 and 1.12 AVs going simultaneously, you would see the same tactics being used, and matches would last the same amount of time. This is why I really don’t care which one we get.


Even in the Blizzard post justifying the use of 1.12 AV, they stated:

It’s just not a reasonable argument from anyone and that includes Blizzard. The justification doesn’t apply to the year 2019 with 1.12 classes and items. I wish people would stop arguing based on their experience and memories from 2005, and instead used logic; maybe we’d get Blizzard to recognize their folly.

The best argument for an earlier recreation of AV is to quote Blizzard’s own justification for their use of patch 1.12: “After careful consideration, we decided on Patch 1.12: Drums of War as our foundation, because it represents the most complete version of the classic experience.”

The version of AV they chose does not represent the most complete version of AV. It’s a trimmed down version with less content.


I agree - they know what people think about this, and have known for a long time.
Unfortunately, they are beta testing the watered down version.

Toss in layering and I am not sure if I want to invest the time into the game.

So the reason why they are going with 1.12 AV is because npcs were like bosses? Maybe they think players need a safe zone in the middle of the BG too… That’s weak. All that was half the fun! You couldn’t just ride past a group of npcs and the bowman would tare you a new one in a couple seconds and that was just amazing.

Bum rushing bases isn’t AV, especially since 99% of the time alliance will win since they can instantly cap the horde GY at base.

Old AV is what made AV last couple days, or even a week. It was absolutely AMAZING for rep farming (looting and turning things in), actually team work / real PvP battles in bunkers and graveyards.

Hopefully they will revert back their idea. I and most do not want soft, weak, nerfed to crap content, if people did… they’ll just play BFA.


It’s incredible that literally EVERYTHING you listed as a negative are things I miss about AV.


Yeah like I said I don’t really want to disparage anyone who likes older versions. Everyone has their own thing that they enjoy and I get why people are upset. I’m just happy because we are getting my favorite version.

Personally I’m not sure of the when each specific version was which. But pre-nerf the match was more a battle of attrition rather than zerg.

1.12 (important to note tests were lvl 58 not 60 with gear) offers an experience similar to modern day WoW AV, where the best course of action is to ignore the other faction as you run past each other on the field of strife and then play some weird form of MDI where you try and out PvE the other team by being slightly quicker to kill the last boss.

It essentially takes the PvP out of the PvPvE encounter.
By forcing roadblocks making NPCs more substantial instead of just speed bumps you open up more opportunity for player engagement. It becomes meaningful to attempt to wipe a group during the Ballinda or Galv encounter for example.

It also slows down the pace, so gathering scraps etc for the various AV turn ins can take place. This can also force PvP combat as you know the enemy has to deal with Lokh for example, that means you know you can meet the enemy there and force them back off Lokh to assist his push.

It just feels more fleshed out to me. The “rush” strat just typically plays by the rules of “ignore 50% of the content and just do this” which while effective, defeats a lot of the purpose of this “epic” bg.

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You can say that for thr dungeons and taids that shipped before Naxxramas as well.

Its not so hard that it would turn people away, but again players tend to forget that numerous gear and class upgrades in addition to direct nerfs to the content greatly reduce the vanilla experience down to a catch up to NAXX and TBC phase of game play; because thats kinda what the last 3 patches were intended to do.


In early AV there were scores of NPCs mostly scattered around the field of strife but also throughout the rest of the battlefield.

Am I missing a max level (120) version of BWL on live? 'Cos I’d definitely go for that over mermaids.

You can still do that in retail.

The difference between 1.12 and retail is huge.

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The TL;DR version of my answer is simply this.

I don’t like that there is even a chance of a “race” to a win and it being over in less than 20 minutes.

The BWL experience would be vastly different from 1.12 even if there was a level 120 version of it. 1.12 AV and BfA AV are not:

Did 1.12 AV have Goblin Gliders?
Did 1.12 AV have Demon Hunters?
Did 1.12 AV have Rogues with Shroud of Concealment?
Did 1.12 AV have NPC scaling?

What players bring into the battleground becomes part of the experience.

AV is frustrating and boring. It doesn’t matter which version is in.

I’m betting that if they created both the garbage nerfed version they are doing and the real AV (original 1.5 version) that the real AV would be by far the more popular of the two.

For a month or two. Until people got bored with it and the queues ended up being 8 hours long and eventually it never popped anymore.

I personally prefer 1.12 AV so I can get exalted and be done, but we should get a chance to experience the original AV.