Because we want a combo point builder that isn’t punished for positional reasons and we want backstab to deal high damage.
We also would like to allow 2 specs to use non daggers while 2 specs can use it.
Im sure if rogue reverted to it’s root sub playstyle you would have OG’S like me start playing rogue again.
Gonna be the contrarian here and say I like SnD. I’ve always liked having to manage it, and I like the sound effect it makes, so I’m against pruning it.
If any single thing should be pruned, it’s Enveloping Shadows. The Shadowstrike spam needs to be toned down, seriously.
As for Hemo… I can take it or leave it. I suggested bringing it back a few days ago but, in truth, I don’t think it’d add anything of value to current Sub. The only way Hemo would fit in and be of use is if they fully reverted Sub back to WoD design, and they’re not going to do that, now or probably ever.
I’d just like hemo back because I liked the animation back
Honest they could readd hemo to have same damage as a back stab and I’d be fine with it
Could just make it add a very small bleed instead of bonus back stab damage
Well I pretty much described it here:
and here:
https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/91-sub-rogue-topic/270988
The only reason to separate Backstab into Hemo and Backstab is to give a different energy cost depending on what kind of damage we’re dealing.
Since Hemo is more forgiving has a lower cost. Backstab being harder to land but with a substantial more punch, would have a larger cost. 35 for Hemo and 40 for Backstab.
If they bump the damage done from behind by a lot, then I’m fine with it. They should add some kind of indicator to Backstab done from behind. Could be a sound or animation, or even both, so we can know that we’re maximizing our damage.
Also, how can you Backstab someone from the front, wouldn’t it be “Stab”?, “Frontstab”?, Non-back Backstab?. Whats that.
Let it be even close to classic Backstab and cost 60 energy (how many Backstabs you use between Shadow Dance, especially with 2 charges), but as you said, let it hit hard from behind. Let it be less used, unique strike, but meaningfull, and not only beeing “white dmg Gloomblade giggling a little more when scratching somone’s back”.
Why do I also want Hemorrhage back?
I always will be stand for giving player a choice, rather that cutting thigs off. From big things, like classic spells and talents (balanced, replaced other spells, tuned for modern gameplay ofc) to even silly thigns, like a possibility to switch between Shadowstrike and Ambush sound and visuals, to glyph this annoying to me as hell sound of Sinister Strike still trying to pretend I fight with pirate sabers, when I grip maces or fist weapons… Srsly, when you use a combo gainer, you hear it a LOT.
And I want to be treated even: a great unprune you say, Monks got back his 2h staff and polearm, Frost DK got back 2h sword, Fury Warrior got back his 1h swords (actually a weapon, not mog of it). After all it cost Blizz one, simple buff for each of them. But Sub rogues can’t get 1h weapon after ten years of wielding it, not on MH, and mechanically not for OH this Exp to this day, and that is what piss me off.
How about backstab cost 60 energy and deal appropriatly high damage… The same can be said with Mutilate too to an extent.
Hemorrhage is the cheap combo point builder.
this is the 1st post about hemorrhage I’ve seen in like 4 years.
I would love to see anything added to sub to help it out.
We do have hemorrhage as sub. It’s called gloomblade. Not only does it have no position requirements, it also do shadow damage which bypasses armor. Those asking for hemo have no idea what they are talking about. Hemo used to be viable because rogues weren’t able to backstab without being behind someone. I honestly don’t believe anyone cared for the debuff it provided. Now you can backstab anywhere even tho it’s just a stab and not “back” stab. Asking for hemo now is like asking for backstab with 20% bonus all the time and no positional bonus, which is barely any improvement since we should avoid doing most things out of dance unless we’re closed to energy capped. In general, if someone backstabs more than shadowstrike, that rogue is doing something wrong. This is the mistake I see rogues do most of the time.
What. No, that’s not what any us said. I even said the Hemo should deal less damage, since it doesn’t have a condition to be used. Not big, gigantic damage, but enough to say that you’re creating some kind of presure and not tickling people.
Not having anything to do outside of SD is what makes this spec so one-dimensional. Hemo is to deal ok damage and build combo points, Backstab to deal even more damage but with a condition. They should ditch Symbols for Gouge to have aditional tools outside SD. Ditch SD charges and Subterfuge to gain Garrote back to have a wider range of options before opening.
Even with those changes, you still want to set up someone with stuns and use SD to land as many Ambushes/Shadowstrikes you can, but the spec would have a different behavior outside of SD, making it a bit more interesting.
What you asked for initially is a major class tuning and it will not happen until next expansion. Currently, backstab hits like a wet noodle. If they adjust the cost of BS and make it hit much much harder, they will have to weaken shadow dance. Too much tuning and disruption to all the balancing work Blizzard has already put in place.
You can always backstab if you really really want to build cp. Just exactly how hard do you want hemo to hit for? If Blizzard makes it hit too hard, then there wouldn’t be a reason to shadow strike. If it’s too weak, then what’s the point to have it in the first place. If it’s somewhere in the middle, what’s the point of having backstab at all? You see what the problem is when you put hemo into the current rogue kit? Plus, if it’s pvp related, having hemo does not strengthen sub’s current win condition. Backstab should be used rarely and the point is just for cp. having hemo which does physical damage, will not give you much of an edge. The current sub meta is hit and run, not stay in and fight like a warrior. I don’t foresee that changing at all. Sub is not a toe-to-toe fighter. If you want that, the upcoming 9.1 outlaw may be better suited for that purpose. No positional requirement. Just pretend sinister strike is hemorrhage. And the bonus is that you also get gouge, just like the old sub rogue.
Sub isn’t broken per se. It’s not necessary to fix what’s not broken.
First of all this guy is right. This is the first post about hemo I’ve seen inyears. Also why not have another button? I love more buttons and flavor and choice. Everything doesnt have to fit in with everything thats what ur guys problem is and why your sucking the fun out of wow. Just let there be more moves more choice, and more for better players to shine.
Just this one sub thread has 3 posters wanting hemo back. And then I’ve seen other buff sub threads thinking hemo is the way to go. Why I made this post just wanting to know what the hype behind hemo is. To me looks like nothing ground breaking.
You’re right that hemo is nothing groundbreaking. It was something rogue used to have back in the “old days” when rogue used to be the most dominant melee. It was at one point used to proc mace stun, that was then nerfed in tbc and removed in wotlk. It was for people who didn’t want to bother with positioning cause it was not always possible to get behind your kill target. It had its used back then, but not anymore. So if we really “missed” hemo, then pretend the current backstab as hemo since functionally they are exactly the same thing. If you’re good at positioning yourself behind your target consistently, then you get the damage bonus. If not, current backstab IS hemo. Also, if you are willing to sacrifice one talent trait, gloomblade is the improved version of it.
it might be cool to have old hemorrhage as a talent, that replaced backstab, allowed us to us swords, makes, axes, and provided a raid wide damage buff. 
Yes, it’s too much!
I’d rather see Subtlety about positioning than being in a False Stealth stance. Make Backstab Great – don’t force Shadowstrike… or Ambush… or whatever they’re calling it now in patch x.y…
Hemo fit in that model. But as the game stands now, not really. Like @Tavlina, a few key combat abilities, not too many, makes the play feel a bit more smooth. Even the sub AoE abilities add too many buttons for me. In the same token, I personally don’t like primary combat cooldowns, like increase damage by 30% for 15 seconds – it’s not that interesting most cases – whereas, things like Smoke Bomb, Cheat Death, and Gouge baseline are absolutely beneficial to making the class feel welcome in more settings and not just another number-pushing homogenous design.
It used to apply a bleed in Wrath.
Tiny one at that.
I want Hemo back to.
Call up Buddhist and Ming.
#WorldofMing.
hemo still exist …
play classic 
jokes aside outside using swords again i dont see why hemo needs a comeback
I don’t really want hemo back. Although Ghostly Strike used to be for Sub if I remember correctly gave you some dodge and it made a cool sound. I don’t get why it is only for Outlaw. They should make PreMed baseline and revert it to how it used to be and then put Ghostly Strike in its place.
On a side note. Would be nice to use swords again. Why cant you stab someone in the back with a sword…makes no sense.