I might be missing something but how does this fix sub rogues? To me it just seems like another button that just adds a debuff. Not much more mechanics to play around and not necessarily more sustain damage. When we can just buff backstab outright as they just did in the PTR notes.
Weren’t people already complaining about slice and dice being a do nothing button how is this different then hemorrhage?
My only assumption is that they are newer rogues who watch old pvp videos and think hemo is something special. Backstab does exactly what hemo does. It’s a cheap 35 point CBP ability. The only difference is eviscerate sucked when hemo was doing good damage. Basically people don’t want mastery for sub and want the damage tied to hemo which is actually dumb asf for this kind of meta.
I don’t get either. Also with SnD.
I prefer my damage come from 2-3 CP builders and 2-3 finishers with 1-2 or good cool downs and an on use trinket. I really don’t like the mentality that more buttons equals more skill.
I’ve visited the Rogue forums quite often over the course of the expansion and Hemo has never been a huge talking point, where are people asking for it back? Majority of Sub Rogues just want a spec that doesn’t involve constant re-stealths and isn’t a stunbot.
Yea idk, I could care less about it
Hemo was used for easy and quick CP generation back in the day. These days Sub generates CPs so quickly that Hemo doesn’t have a place anymore at the table. Plus, Backstab is easier to use now.
Nostalgia is a big part of having Hemo back but the new and current Backstab covers Hemo’s niche.
I just want to always be in Shadow dance… that’s not much to ask for, is it? 
I imagine the main reason to want it back is just to have a cp generator that is not tied to daggers. Being able to use 1 handers would make getting a decent weapon much less of a hassle when gearing up.
If anything, Hemorrhage would be better for Assassination due to it applying a bleed.
I think it use to increase bleed damage taken at one point or another.
Pretty sure hemorrhage applied a debuff that increased physical damage and not a bleed. Not sure if it changed at some point though, been a while.
Because we want a combo point builder that isn’t punished for positional reasons and we want backstab to deal high damage.
We also would like to allow 2 specs to use non daggers while 2 specs can use it.
Im sure if rogue reverted to it’s root sub playstyle you would have OG’S like me start playing rogue again.
Gonna be the contrarian here and say I like SnD. I’ve always liked having to manage it, and I like the sound effect it makes, so I’m against pruning it.
If any single thing should be pruned, it’s Enveloping Shadows. The Shadowstrike spam needs to be toned down, seriously.
As for Hemo… I can take it or leave it. I suggested bringing it back a few days ago but, in truth, I don’t think it’d add anything of value to current Sub. The only way Hemo would fit in and be of use is if they fully reverted Sub back to WoD design, and they’re not going to do that, now or probably ever.
I’d just like hemo back because I liked the animation back
Honest they could readd hemo to have same damage as a back stab and I’d be fine with it
Could just make it add a very small bleed instead of bonus back stab damage
Well I pretty much described it here:
and here:
https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/91-sub-rogue-topic/270988
The only reason to separate Backstab into Hemo and Backstab is to give a different energy cost depending on what kind of damage we’re dealing.
Since Hemo is more forgiving has a lower cost. Backstab being harder to land but with a substantial more punch, would have a larger cost. 35 for Hemo and 40 for Backstab.
If they bump the damage done from behind by a lot, then I’m fine with it. They should add some kind of indicator to Backstab done from behind. Could be a sound or animation, or even both, so we can know that we’re maximizing our damage.
Also, how can you Backstab someone from the front, wouldn’t it be “Stab”?, “Frontstab”?, Non-back Backstab?. Whats that.
Let it be even close to classic Backstab and cost 60 energy (how many Backstabs you use between Shadow Dance, especially with 2 charges), but as you said, let it hit hard from behind. Let it be less used, unique strike, but meaningfull, and not only beeing “white dmg Gloomblade giggling a little more when scratching somone’s back”.
Why do I also want Hemorrhage back?
I always will be stand for giving player a choice, rather that cutting thigs off. From big things, like classic spells and talents (balanced, replaced other spells, tuned for modern gameplay ofc) to even silly thigns, like a possibility to switch between Shadowstrike and Ambush sound and visuals, to glyph this annoying to me as hell sound of Sinister Strike still trying to pretend I fight with pirate sabers, when I grip maces or fist weapons… Srsly, when you use a combo gainer, you hear it a LOT.
And I want to be treated even: a great unprune you say, Monks got back his 2h staff and polearm, Frost DK got back 2h sword, Fury Warrior got back his 1h swords (actually a weapon, not mog of it). After all it cost Blizz one, simple buff for each of them. But Sub rogues can’t get 1h weapon after ten years of wielding it, not on MH, and mechanically not for OH this Exp to this day, and that is what piss me off.
How about backstab cost 60 energy and deal appropriatly high damage… The same can be said with Mutilate too to an extent.
Hemorrhage is the cheap combo point builder.
this is the 1st post about hemorrhage I’ve seen in like 4 years.
I would love to see anything added to sub to help it out.
We do have hemorrhage as sub. It’s called gloomblade. Not only does it have no position requirements, it also do shadow damage which bypasses armor. Those asking for hemo have no idea what they are talking about. Hemo used to be viable because rogues weren’t able to backstab without being behind someone. I honestly don’t believe anyone cared for the debuff it provided. Now you can backstab anywhere even tho it’s just a stab and not “back” stab. Asking for hemo now is like asking for backstab with 20% bonus all the time and no positional bonus, which is barely any improvement since we should avoid doing most things out of dance unless we’re closed to energy capped. In general, if someone backstabs more than shadowstrike, that rogue is doing something wrong. This is the mistake I see rogues do most of the time.
What. No, that’s not what any us said. I even said the Hemo should deal less damage, since it doesn’t have a condition to be used. Not big, gigantic damage, but enough to say that you’re creating some kind of presure and not tickling people.
Not having anything to do outside of SD is what makes this spec so one-dimensional. Hemo is to deal ok damage and build combo points, Backstab to deal even more damage but with a condition. They should ditch Symbols for Gouge to have aditional tools outside SD. Ditch SD charges and Subterfuge to gain Garrote back to have a wider range of options before opening.
Even with those changes, you still want to set up someone with stuns and use SD to land as many Ambushes/Shadowstrikes you can, but the spec would have a different behavior outside of SD, making it a bit more interesting.