Why do some of the most evil go to Maldraxxus?

“Best Suited” is a weird concept. It may be that his sense of duty and loyalty made him worth more to the system as a Kyrian than he would have been as a soldier. I think that’s less an insult to his combat prowess and more a testament to his sense of devotion.

Same with KT - maybe he really wasn’t ‘irredeemably evil’. It’s a much-used example now but a planet-killer didn’t get the Maw either. On that kind of scale, KT just led an army for the purposes of conquest, betrayed some people, did some dark magic… Horrifically evil to us but on the cosmic scale of things maybe they thought they’d give him a shot. Maldraxxus did have the Primus to keep everyone in line, after all, which worked so long as he was there. Like the other three realms we visit, though, the linchpins are all missing or broke.

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We dont know that. Kelthuzad is a Baron in the house of Rituals. I can go into spoilers territory for the Maldraxxus covenant campaign homever and say what happens to him (no not death or anything like that) he is definetly aligned with the Jailer homever.

Actually I will just say it below

Spoilers… for noone

He betrays the house of ritual margrave and fights two covenants (revendreth/necrolords) Taunts kaelthas about the sunwell ("thanks for letting me use the sunwell etc. It is said he taunts alexandros too but when i did the necrolord campaign on the beta that was absent as I remember Reporting that it would be nice if he could taunt alexandros as well, anyways. Kel’thuzad escapes in the “Muhahaha i will get you next time, MAW WALKER” cartoon style that nu-blizzard is known for, after a fight reminiscent of his naxx boss fight. its basically anima fused memberberry fight.

Margrave sin’dane later allies with the Necrolords after being rescued (making him the only margrave left alive, though not sure about vyraz I think he dies in a kyrian quest) Making balmedar (a lich you aid but he makes it clear he is only after the best for his house and/or being made into a baron).

Ehm I lost my train of thought, but it basically set up Kel’thuzad raid for 9.1 or whatever.

You are sent to Revendreth when the Arbiter deems your soul is capable of reaching contrition for your acts in life, so that you can go onto another afterlife realm as a functional member.

Maldraxxus in a lot of ways seems like another place you may send people of a dark nature, but not the ones capable of ever admitting their crimes by enduring the Venthyr reformation process. Maldraxxus harnesses your innate (usually violent, or scheming) nature, and in a way also acts in a reformative manner as after a sufficient duty of loyal service you can eventually earn retirement of a sort from the realm (presumably at the Primus’ judgement, of course). Your millennia worth of heroic acts in protecting the defenseless souls of the Shadowlands would eventually outweigh anything bad you may of done in life.

As for Uther, his memory (and trauma) from Arthas and his crimes weighted him down, so purging himself of that burden would of been actually good for him. Unfortunately as he is only half a soul the part of him capable of forgiveness is MIA.

I think people need to realize, that with all the talk of redemption by the Vanthyr, souls have their destination chosen, not due to their moral standing, but due to where they ‘fit’ into the ‘machine’ of death. Souls sent to the Vanthyr are made plaint. Souls are only sent to the Maw if they are deemed a potential threat to the function of the Shadowlands. The Vanthyr exists to ‘salvage’ the souls which are borderline. Being a threat to the Shadowlands does not mean being being evil necessarily.

I find this concept rather disturbing from a mental health standpoint.

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it is possible that he did go to Revendreth and was transferred to Maldraxxus after rehab.
not all souls who go to Revendreth become Venthyr.

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Because the Arbiter is wrong.

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You must remember when a soul is “Redeemed” in Revendreth they either become Venthir or are sent off to one of the other afterlives …if Dentharius was already working with the Jailer at the time of Kel’thuzard’s death …he could have pulled some strings and sent him to Maldraxxus.

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If maldraxxus is all about combat prowess disregarding character flaws then I don’t understand how Draka is at the top while Garrosh and Kael’thas (not sure) are in Revendreth

I have a small theory, and it’s that each zone is based around certain elements of survival, even though we’re all dealing with dead entities.

Bastions mode of survival is releasing themselves from the emotions and bonds of life, thus freeing themselves to fulfill their ultimate duty in the Shadowlands. Maldraxxus is a more pragmatic sense of survival: those who will do anything to anyone to physically survival, in essence, an almost Objectivist sense of survival of the fittest. This also fits with much of it seeming like a warped version of Valhalla: constant fighting, drinking, then fighting, then drinking. Ardeanweald is more concerned about survival in the sense of prolonging the life/essence of the world/planet/universe, rather than caring much for your own body/soul, hence the sacrific of Ursoc and the Winter Queen thanking him for his last sacrifice. Lastly, Revendeath is survival in the sense of submitting yourself to punishment/flagellation as a way to atone, a very fundamentalist Christian sort of survival.

Put this way, the four regions/zones can be opposed as such. Maldraxxus and Ardeanweald are opposed, as Maldraxxus favors survival of the one/physical versus Ardeanweald favoring survival of the many/essence. Bastion and Revendreath are opposed, as Bastion requires you to give up those emotional and mental connections to the living world in order to fulfill your duty, whereas Reveandreath requires a constant connection to your words/deeds/actions while living as a way to atone and thus fulfill your duty.

They can also be split on the axis of Idealism vs. Pragmatism, and Selfishness vs. Selflessness. Ardeanweald is idealistic, Maldraxxus is pragmatic, Revendeath is selfishiness, and Bastion is selflessness.

So, looking at Kael’Thas, someone so incredibly proud and connected to his people and their plight to he basically resurrected himself as a zombie to continue to the fight, it makes sense for him to be in Revendreath because his name, his title, and his connection to his people and his power are literally ALL HE HAS, and it’s the one thing that would be sustaining to someone like him. It’s not merely doing selfish things, but the fundamental belief that you are intrinsic to so many outside elements during your life that to disregard them (or be disregarded by them) would be a fate worse than death.

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This is mainly due to the Primus being MIA. The Primus kept the houses in check. Without him, it became a FFA to see which Margrave could become the new “primus”. In which the house of rituals and house of constructs made an alliance along with a traitor within the house of the chosen. It is implied that the house of plagues was destroyed intentionally in a good old case of sabotage (as their Margrave says “beware the Baron” or something like that when you kill her) meanwhile the House of Eyes got nuked.

That being said, it would appear that the House of Eyes, house of the Chosen and the House of plagues would’ve stuck true to their mission of protecting the shadowlands from all threats, whether internal or external, which is why they had to go or have a change in leadership.

As for KT ending up in Maldraxxus, I believe you find out that he is in league with the Jailer, and therefore Denarthius as well. Most likely that KT was sent to Maldraxxus by Denarthius to convince the house of rituals (and by extension the house of constructs) to side with the Jailer.

He didn’t resurrect himself, nor was he resurrected period. Priestess Delrissa shoved a Fel crystal into his mostly dead body. Kael’thas has only died once, and that was in MGT.

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The thing about the afterlives we’ve seen thus far is that all of them but Ardenweald aren’t a rest so much as afterlives required to make the rest of the afterlives function. Someone who cools their heels in Revendreth for centuries won’t get sent to, say, Bastion after, they’ll be sent to one of the myriad other afterlives.

dont forget morgraine.

also, i think people also get sent to bastion if they have memories that would hinder their afterlife.

Considering I don’t get to see any of those quests, my suspicion about Kel’thuzad specifically is that some sort of shenanigans were involved. I mean, we didn’t even destroy his phylactery last time we took him down, so he shouldn’t even be in the Shadowlands as far as we know.

In general though, this is my main problem with Maldraxxus. Apparently Blizzard came at it from this perspective:

Another aspect was to play with players’ expectations, as Maldraxxus’ aggressive and evil-looking exterior initially belies its noble purpose, but this also caused the team to worry—at least until the first external playthroughs of the zone started—if players would be able to care and empathize with the characters in such an alien-looking place.

I’m totally okay empathizing with the good guys in Maldraxxus, it just seems like they’re hilariously hard to find. Even the remaining “good” House gets betrayed and taken over by bad guys by the end of the leveling, leaving all Houses either gone or in service to the Jailer.

Worse, it’s all willing. In Bastion, it’s said that most of the Forsworn don’t know who they’re actually working for (and their concerns are entirely valid), in Ardenweald, the bad Night Fae explicitly and tragically have their free will stolen, and even in Revendreth, it’s made clear that most of the Venthyr don’t know their leader is corrupt, and most of them would not stand for it if they realized it was happening (or thought they had a chance to challenge an Eternal One).

As soon as you enter Maldraxxus, however, the bad Margraves admit that all they needed to be told to turn bad was basically “You don’t really care who you’re killing as long as you’re doing it, right?”

I’m not really surprised though. It’s more or less the same problem we have with “oh no, another Horde leader has gone bad”. They want to subvert expectations, that these brutal barbarians with traditionally evil symbolism can actually be good, and there’s a good message there. But someone on the team doesn’t seem to be able to help themselves, and if they’re writing an undead character or a bloodthirsty barbarian, they inevitably slip into tradition. Eventually someone realizes that direction has gone too far, the story has to insist most characters don’t endorse it and blame it on the leader, but the cycle starts over sooner or later.

Because I really can’t help but notice that the “realm that borrows the most evil symbolism but really is good underneath” is nevertheless the one that really does have the most openly malicious characters (and frankly, even the “good” characters don’t seem to have a problem with the Brokers kidnapping people for them to fight, performing horrific experiments on unwilling subjects, or creating biological weapons of mass destruction, and I didn’t see any attempt to prove how that helps them defend the Shadowlands except in the vaguest sense of ‘it makes them stronger’).

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Think about how much anima they could milk out of him the way they do Garoosh.

there are theories that since he is in cahoots with the jailer he got a free pass from revendreth to maldraxxus, courtesy of denathrius.

its a shame nobody made a drawing of a venthyr milking garrosh mantits for that sweet anima.

The realm of Maldraxxus abhors the weak, only the strongest or most cunning succeed in the realm. So yes betrayal is a huuuuuge part of Maldraxxian politics, if you where not strong enough or cunning enough to avoid betrayal you did not deserve your position. That’s how Maldraxxus is the military arm of the SLs and Kelthuzaad probably snuck in tbh but he fits the bill for what Maldraxxus looks for in a military leader, shrewd, cunning, and powerful.

Also revendreth isn’t just for the wicked it is for those vile, prideful souls who committed grievous sins (that their world determines) and are sent there to be humbled through much torture, it is however your last chance stop before the maw. Doesn’t appear evil people just go straight to the maw.

Yeah this is the big takeaway. I’m confused as to why anyone is confused by this. His phylactery was never destroyed, so he was literally never killed after Arthas raised him at the Sunwell.

Have his puppeteered bodies been destroyed? Yeah. But that does absolutely nothing but inconvenience a lich for a week or maybe a month.

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I mean Kelthuzaad isn’t the arch lich without reason, he is very crafty.

I really appreciate how well-thought-out this is.

Nothing else to say at this point. Have a cookie? :cookie: