Doesn’t make them correct either.
I mean I would stop engaging with people that continuously prove me wrong so I can see why they stop posting.
Because you’re caught in the feelings and enjoy trolling.
More that you can’t help make asinine arguments.
You’re here to troll, not to debate. You’re here to dictate not to improve the game or yourself.
As did I. The amount is between 10-20% to account for the error margin, or did you not read what I wrote?
Wrong. The quarterly earnings report just released shows that Blizzard on the whole has record low MAU, which means the situation for low player engagement hasn’t improved since Bellular’s video and actually worsened. So you can’t use that as an excuse.
Because we weren’t talking about M+, we were talking about raiding. M+ is more accessible due to smaller group sizes and there aren’t as many complaints about M+ as there are raiding. The M+ numbers are down as well, compared to BFA.
See the above point of the MAU still being off a cliff. Your statement simply isn’t correct, because they’re losing players from the game entirely. They didn’t simply shift to M+, they stopped playing the game entirely. That includes raiding.
The raiding in BFA was absolutely godawful as well and I’d no doubt find numbers suggesting that if I felt like putting in the effort. Raiding was last good in Legion and that was six years ago. The data is the data. Active raiders are the overwhelming minority playing the game, to the point where their opinion is statistically irrelevant to the discussion.
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LMFAO.
BUDDY OL’ PAL.
the topic is clearly about raiding AND m+.
Shadowlands was a bad expansion, nobody is saying it wasn’t bro.
But you only have 2 expansions to your argument while i have 6 that show raiding was VERY MUCH active.
So if you want to die on that hill with your 2 bad expansions and let that small fraction dictate everything else, then you do you boo boo.
[quote]I’ve seen some threads where apparently, solo players feel like they are getting nothing compared to the Raiders / M+ / Rated PvP players.
[/quote]
Well here lies the problem. There is only one way to put that effort.
Why do solo people want better gear? Same reason you do. Survive longer and kill faster. You do it in mythics and raids. Solo or small groups players don’t get any of that because there is no other system.
If they put in the grind of all grinds to get slightly equal or equal to raider/mythic gear than they really would have a reason to complain other than “Those that can, do. Those that can’t, solo.”
For whatever reason why people can’t or won’t raid/mythic they kind of have a point that there isn’t anything for them and you can only reroll or run an alt just to run face first into that wall again.
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I really appreciate that your reply was civil so thanks for that <3 I get what you are saying but I guess for me I just always thought time invested in a game like this is the effort. I can understand that argument for some kind of an esports game.
And thanks to Bloodypaws for the heads up.
Understandable,
but did you know you can spam m0s for 262 gear, and then you can do low keys like m2/m3 (which are fairly easy) and eventually upgrade all your gear to 298…basically making you STRONGER than heroic raid gear?..
…did we miss this strat?
Do you suffer from memory loss? We, as in the discussion between you and me, was not about M+. It was about raid numbers. You can’t change the topic now after having your butt handed to you by the numbers.
Still in denial about the crappy Vanilla raid numbers, huh?
Then where’s the data for them? “Yeah, just believe me bro” doesn’t mean anything. If it’s six, it should be easy for you to provide numbers.
Vanilla wasn’t a bad expansion, it was the literal start of the game. But keep telling yourself that the community cares deeply about raiding and enforced group content, when all evidence is to the contrary.
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Bro, nobody could raid in vanilla because the process was much longer, you are delusional.
Are we forgetting attunement quests? those alone took WEEKS.
getting to 60 took MONTHS.
Back then the game was much slower paced and the playerbase was not a “gogogogo” like it is now.
Getting into a raid in vanilla was 10000x harder than it is now. Of course there would be LESS PLAYERS RAIDING.
When i said 2, i didnt mean vanilla, i meant WoD and SL.
Although vanilla had low raiding numbers it wasn’t because it was bad or because “the playerbase was uininterested”
THERE WAS NOTHING TO DO AT THE TIME BUT TYR TO GET INTO A RAID LOL.
It would be difficult for me to find a video simply because…the raiding numbers weren’t bad during those periods? IF THEY WERE, THERE WOULD BE A VIDEO RIGHT?
About how terrible blizzard raiding is every expansion right? buttttttt there isn’t, so isn’t it safe to assume the raiding population was perfectly fine?
No, it’s been there a while now.
So let’s look at people who can’t afford the time. I don’t raid. My g/f has MS and can require my assistance or help at a moments notice. I play when she is asleep or medicated out the wazoo. I tried raiding but raids don’t like it when you ask to AFK for 30 seconds which than turns into 30 min. Burned through so many guilds that didn’t want to wait.
Then there are the people who don’t believe they are good enough and God knows no one in this game anymore has the patience for anyone that could use a little help.
If memory serves. Solo to small group players still make up the majority of players.
Some of us would like better more routes to get better stuff.
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I’m sorry about about your current conditions.
But you can gear up outside of raiding, there are mythic0 dungeons that only require 30mins.
If you get a decent group it gets done much faster.
There is the option of just consistently running the dungeons that require less time.
EX. avoid lower karazhan, thats a 42 minute dungeon.
Good. Save your money. I will keep playing my game where I earn my items and not get given them for doing nothing.
This game and the overall genre has always been rewarding better gear to harder content and in the case of this game group content.
Example being what’s more effort? 20 people working on a boss till it’s dead (that could take hours if a progression boss) or one person killing random mobs for 20 minutes?
Basically ignore everything he says. Guy doesn’t play the game and is nothing but a troll.
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Yet you still aren’t addressing that an overwhelming minority of the playerbase still aren’t raiding even with all those obstacles removed. It must really hurt your feelings that everyone else doesn’t care nearly as much about raiding as you do.
So the levelling experience (which is what most people did), PVP, crafting, economics, mount collecting and dungeons weren’t done by anyone playing Vanilla when only 5% of people in Vanilla actually raided? Maybe you should stop projecting and get some therapy for your own delusions. People weren’t waiting to raid. They never bothered in the first place because it wasn’t their goal in playing the game and 16 years later not much has changed. People who are keen to raid, raid and those who don’t have it as a priority don’t. Raiding is not a priority to the WoW playerbase.
You really devoid of all knowledge of logic, aren’t you? You can’t prove a negative, but you could prove your supposed point of more people raiding back than instead of now by highlighting a video where the raid numbers were in excess of the 10-20% provided by io and the 5% provided by Blizzard. So by all means, go ahead and post them. Prove that raiding was popular outside of Vanilla, BFA and SL.
Raiding in Legion was actually fun, so I’d expect better numbers there because it was more accessible due to class design being competent. But you still need to provide these numbers.
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I’m sorry for her situation. MS is no joke.
Mythic is the only time that should be an issue because it’s non flex. My suggestion would be if you really wanted to raid find a casual aotc guild. Explain the situation and just when you need to step away just drop group and rejoin when you can return. Just make sure you’re playing in a dps role as the raid will flex based on your group size.
This allows you take take care of the IRL stuff and not have them waiting for 30 minutes.
I know a few aotc guilds that would be ok with that type of situation as long as they are aware ahead of time (ie during the pre guild interview)
End of the day if you really enjoy raiding this is a possibility.
It really depends on the aims of the guild. A mythic team sure I would agree with you.
However a lot of aotc or super casual guilds have zero issue helping people.
This game is 1000% about finding the same people with the same goals/mindset.
A top 10 guild is going to do things differently than a top 100 guild.
A top 100 guild is going to do things differently than a CE guild and so on
Look at season 4, raiders got fated raids, m+ people got a whole new pool of dungeons. And solo players got, hm, a weekly world boss that you can idk use two globals and see the world at amazing 2 FPS.
What people that play alone want is something to do, that it have at least some quality, maybe a proper story mode for past expansions where you solo the old bosses with bots, stuff like that.
And while yes it is a group game in its nature, you can’t ignore the amount of people that is not on this content and all they do is do quests, level alts, do old dungeons, etc.
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This only applies to 2 expansions, the other ones had very healthy raiding communities.
There was no “mount collecting” in vanilla the way it was, there wasn’t even achievements. WE DIDNT EVEN HAVE A COLLECTION TAB.
The game was 100% totally different than what it is, and the community is 100% different than what it is, the fact you keep comparing 2 games 16 years apart is asinine, especially when both games were played COMPLETELY different.
The video that you suggested was during the low points of WoW.
This is safe to assume all the other expansions were not at such a low point, hence why no negativity is surrounding the raiding for those expansions, its just you bashing raiding, nobody is here supporting you.
The game was never like this though.
Unfortunately solo players were never the focus.
And like I said before, they are TRYING, and have added features to accommodate solo players but they have failed, there isn’t a clear cut solution because there’s been a massive outcry from the community every time they release any content that’s deemed too difficult for casuals.
Soloing old bosses with a party of bots won’t happen because they can just scale old dungeons/WB down so they are soloable.
There are many MMORPGs out there that focus more on solo play/quests/lore.
WoW is not one of those RPGs and the lore has gone downhill since wrath.
But I think the question shouldn’t be whether or not the community was healthy, but rather were the majority of players participating?
To be honest, none of us will ever be able to effectively articulate this statistic because it’s not something Blizzard publishes or provides to us. I know some people use achievements as an example, but even they aren’t reliable given that boosts exists, making the statistics inflated and inaccurate for the discussion at hand. People who say “X players are the majority” are merely detracting from the discourse.
I’m of the opinion that we shouldn’t be looking at which group is the majority. It’s reductive. We should be talking about the game’s quality. I don’t want Blizzard to take away from the raiding experience but I would like equal effort put into solo content. If solo content exists in the game, it should be good. Everyone benefits, even raiders because I seriously doubt raiders are doing nonstop raiding especially since there are weekly lockouts, when the entirety of the game is good rather than segments. Breaking it down into statistics doesn’t really do any of us any favors.
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You’re right and i agree.
But solo content has existed in the game…numerous times and the systems have been botched.
So just like you said, we don’t know the right feature to implement, because if the answer was so crystal clear, I’m pretty sure blizzard would’ve added it by now.