Why do Solo players think they get nothing vs Raiders / M+ Players?

I’m not demanding anything. I don’t expect to be given raid/PvP/M+ level gear, since I never do any of that content. I do dungeons when I outlevel them for transmog items and to see the story. I just want to be able to look good while I’m killing things, is that so wrong?

I don’t see why it’s a problem to ask for more solo based content for those of us who prefer to do our own thing in the game without being funneled into content we don’t enjoy. My playstyle has absolutely no effect on players who enjoy group content so why do so many of them get salty when someone expresses they prefer to play WoW as a solo player?

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Then apparently you haven’t been really reading.

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Was this supposed to be in English? I never said I refuse any argument from the 1%, I only point out that they constantly make up strawman arguments because they refuse to acknowledge the 99%. The person I was speaking to even called the 99% the “vocal minority”.

Quite honestly, points are points regardless but the 1% disregard everything else because they think spending a crap ton of time on a video game gives them credibility.

So, not dense, I think you just lack the critical thinking skills to comprehend my point. Either that or you’re the typical 1% who has to make up strawman arguments rather than actually argue the topic. I’m guessing you didn’t read through any of the comments because you had to make a strawman of what I said rather than my point, which is sweet juicy irony.

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you keep saying things like this … that’s not how normal rational people operate.

Everybody knows wasting time on the forums is the real casual gameplay.

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Oh look, gaslighting… how nice of you.

Those Tweets you quoted are nothing more than word salads that try to rationalize why elitism should be accepted.

WoW’s top players, streamers, and content creators are not inherently elitist. They can even have opinions about competitive content, and these opinions should of course be taken into consideration.

But when the top players give feedback that directly and negatively affects casual players simply for the sake of making top players seem better by comparison, that is elitism. And when WoW devs implement changes to appease this crowd rather than worrying about the state of the game, that is elitism as well.

“Uninformed opinions don’t matter” is in and of itself an elitist statement. If casual players are being negatively affected by dev decisions, their opinions matter whether you agree with them or not—because it affects the health of the game.

Some GD posters in particular have a history of accusing me of being uninformed even when I am backing my claims up with numbers like item levels and facts about how game systems actually work. So they keep trying to dismiss my opinions by making it seem as though I am “uninformed”.

Players are going to have different opinions about game design regardless of how informed they are. If someone has a different opinion than you do, and you find yourself accusing that person of being uninformed or unintelligent just because they have a different opinion than you do, then perhaps you need to look inward and figure out why you are tying your opinions to your need to feel intelligent or superior.

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Long thread so I may have missed this, but has anyone mentioned horrific visions yet?

They were perfect for me - solo progression, hard achievements, a nice gear bump every week.

It was actually the raiders who complained about horrific visions because they felt pressured to do them every week (M+ and raid gear was not enough apparently).

So when the format was adapted to Torghast the rewards disappeared, and torghast was a terrible flop that felt bad to do.

Ironically they also made torghast literally required content for raiders, because they were the only source of legendaries, so removing the gear rewards was a complete failure in every sense.

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This single statement proves his point.

Who asked though

Weren’t there also non-raiders who complained that they were too hard, or that there was a timer?

Sure, you’ll never please everyone, and honestly the timer at the start was too tight - the first vision on a character was damn near impossible on some classes. It oddly got easier as you made some progress on your cloak or the talents, then got harder again as you added in masks. Definitely could have been balanced better to ease people in a bit more gently.

The real question here is “what do solo players want”. When I play solo I want three things really.

  • I want Mastery, something that pushes me to get better at my class and is repeatable so I can get better at it;
  • I want Purpose - a goal to aim for, an achievement;
  • and I want Reward - it has to feel like the time I am spending is worthwhile.

Visons filled all those things for me, which is why I enjoyed it so much.

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Visions were good. They were appropriately challenging for the rewards they provided. As I have said before, I would not be opposed to a system like visions returning.

I am not against the concept of there being good solo gear available in game, I am simply saying that nothing that currently exists in the game as a solo mode warrants giving good gear as a reward.

And here you go again proving my point.

Elitists can claim that any opinion is “uninformed” and ignore it—just like they do to any statement I make because they want to keep the casuals down in their place, regardless of the facts.

Favoring the whims of the top 1% to the detriment of the bottom 99% is elitism, pure and simple.

Favoring the needs of the bottom 99% to keep this game going is not elitism but pragmatism.

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Not really a solo player but I would like to see Brawler’s Guild come back.

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It is, but not all elitism is toxic. Being elitist about keeping yourself informed about topics you wish to speak upon is healthy.

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Would you dismiss an expert mechanic’s opinion about what’s wrong with your car because they are an “elitist”?

They conflate criticism with insults.

Most casuals cannot handle being told they can (and should) do better. Calling you an elitist shortly follows.

Not all elitists are experts though. Some are just pretenders.

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That may be, but basically all experts get dismissed as elitist.