I am holding in a deep-seated rage that is neither your fault nor fair to you.
People management is a skill, but raiding isn’t intrinsically difficult more than a solo experience is for anyone but the people doing the managing. At every level of difficulty ascribed to a raid, there exists a single player experience as challenging or moreso. That it doesn’t exist in WoW is a choice by Blizzard, not a lack of capacity.
The reality is that were such content created in the context of wow, its gear would immediately be more aspirational and indicative of actual game skill than raid gear, since it would be impossible to be carried through.
Anyway, it’s not like I hold any realistic belief that any such content will ever come to wow; for some reason raiding continues to be held on a pedestal despite extremely niche popularity in any remotely challenging versions of it.
The reality of the experience of WoW raiding is that 90% of the time in “progression” content, some high percentage of the raiders are repeating ad nauseum a fight they know backwards and forwards, waiting for the lowest link in the chain to either learn or get a lucky attempt. The most important skill for the largest group of players in anything that isn’t on the complete cutting edge, besides the baseline modicum of skill for the content they are in, is the capacity to deal with repetitious tedium without getting annoyed at people worse than they are.
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Yet whether they add it or not we get these people that seem to think that anything solo must be some hand out system or faceroll. Im sure you’re right and we’ll never get it but it doesnt hurt to speak up and hope to change the company mind given decent ideas instead of just bickering or name calling like some of the forum goers do
This whole us vs them “casuals” and “sweatlords” stuff gets us nowhere but more division when its unnecessary, this is a big game with plenty of potential for everyone
I like the idea of all of the rares having a daily chance to drop the gear at random ranks (capped if needed). That would be a much more rewarding experience than just farming currency.
The pacing is definitely problematic, when you stretch it out like Korthia, people complain it’s too slow.
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Which just means there are many other players online in the game, not that you have to play with them. Why is that so hard for people to understand?
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I think some people want WoW to be a game that, it really was never set up to be.
From day 1 in vanilla you could solo a lot of content and progress, but getting better gear during leveling was from group content and max level gearing was from group content.
The idea being it is a online RPG with role based classes using the trinity of tank/healer/dps and grouping up to take advantage of the synergy of different classes is a natural part of the game and overcoming more challenging encounters.
It’s never really been a solo based progression game. There have been fragments of it where solo content has done double duty as catchup gear for people doing group content as well as main gearing for people not doing group content, but it’s been fairly sporadic.
There are a ton of solo single players RPGs that are way more fun as a single player game than WoW.
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I wish people would stop using these as challenging solo or open-world content when you still needed to do group for gear to even start those or progress in them. Then doing the content was not rewarding because no gear dropped from doing it. Gear is not just a reward but a necessary tool for advancement.
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I think people think it’s odd to insist on playing a multiplayer game, then demand it be made more solo player style, when you only want the other people to mill around like NPCs anyway.
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Is like I started playing league of legends and demand them to make the game more like dota or hots, it doesn’t make any sense.
I don’t care about ilvl. I just want ways to collect more looks for my characters. I like doing quests and running around the world, exploring zones and stuff.
Trust me when I say, no one wants to be in a group with me either. I don’t have the coordination or anything, and I panic and forget half my abilities if things are going to heck.
And while I know I am not at all skilled at the game, I also don’t want to be yelled at every time I mess up in a game I am paying to play for fun.
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I’ve played tons of singleplayer RPGs. None are as fun as WoW.
(edit: to add though, not saying I want the best raid tier items. I think catch up gear is fine enough for me. But this is why I play WoW and while I’ve tried many other games and MMOs…why I always end up back to WoW as a person who never does current raids at all and is almost a pure soloer…)
None have the lore of warcraft
None of the races of warcraft
None have the world…of warcraft
No singleplayer RPG is updated for decades and decades where you only buy an expansion once in a while and just get continious updates (granted pay 15 a month but thats fine)
No singleplayer RPG is nearly endless. You can argue minecraft with RPG mods are endless, but those are mods not the game itself. And minecraft by default isn’t much an RPG to me, or if one can argue it is for whatever reason, it isnt the type of RPG I like (though I do like minecraft)
The closest to an endless singleplayer RPG are probably fallout 3/4 and skyrim…but ONLY because of mods. But neither have warcraft or its lore or anything about warcraft.
And if some mod did recreate WoW through mods, blizzard probably shut it down for copyright claims like warhammer does
Therefor. Until there is a singleplayer warcraft RPG (that is designed to be singleplayer) that is updated for decades and decades, that looks and plays like WoW that I can pay 15 a month so it keeps being updated…I will continue playing WoW.
I don’t like the lore in most games compared to WoW. The only other lore I like is warhammer fantasy and warhammer 40k, but none have any good singleplayer RPGs, definitely not ones you can play for decades and decades
Also most games classes don’t play nearly as fun as WoW classes do. I’ve tried tons of other MMOs, and I always quit cause the classes suck compared to WoW’s classes (well suck to me anyway others probably like classes in other games or they wouldn’t play it, I think WoW’s races, cosmetics and classes are all the best imo in the MMO industry and far more fun than most singleplayer RPGs)
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in fact, Korthia was really close to ideal. Conceptually, the two things it needed were to bump the ilvl pacing for the early bumps a taddddd faster, and to either make the Sand gear cost less and have a 6 ilvl bump OR be BoA.
For that matter, had they made the Sand gear upgradeable via Cosmic Flux, to say…just between normal and heroic, even at a slow pace, that would have been a great sweet spot.
For context, I’m saying this as a player who’s played in 20+ M+, who actively raids heroic content in most tiers but could easily be doing Mythic raiding if the logistics gatekeeping weren’t something I oppose, and someone who sucks at but enjoys the PvP push and constantly bettering myself. And I ALSO am an altoholic, with many characters at end game or near said content at a given time
For me, I have no need for such an open world system BUT there was a blip on my main where Korthia gear managed to be an upgrade for around two days, mid-season, for one slot. And that felt good.
I mean, I’m going to be replacing it, easy. But the fact world content could satisfy that slim niche on my active main felt great.
To me, little changes like this are likely to the answer, as ZM was GREAT for outdoor content. More puzzle rare spawns, more interactive rares, just a smidge more RATE of power early, and a smidge more top end later even if it’s slow.
And then, more alt friendly mechanisms
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Why do you think that solo players dont put effort into their char?
I would argue that it is much harder and time consuming hunting for achievements, transmogs and various crafting patterns, than it is to run M+ content.
I did raid pretty much all content when it was still considered the hardest like Sunwell pre patch, Naxx classic or LK HC.
At no point would I have claimed that I was some super hero, who deserved more than others.
We had folks on our servers that did not just raid twice a week to gain epic loot, plus the additional farming for raid mats.
No, these folks did solo world pvp, farmed the rarest crafting world drops, had an epic mount…
Effort is measured not just by grouping with others once a day or week, its actually a lot more and some of the solo players I met in 18 years, did definately put in much more effort than I did as a raider, who wasnt in a bottom tier guild either, but the top 3 on our realm.
Up until today, I struggle to find the motivation to grind reputation, quests, toys or pets, mounts… To have more than one active char, to be involved in various activities across Azeroth.
I can only say, those that do all that, put in a lot more effort than the every day raider, no matter if he runs M+ or just LFR.
Therefore,
it is just right to give them rewards and those should not be some piece of scrap leather, but actually valuable and a way to progress their char further.
From day 1 in vanilla you could solo a lot of content and progress, but getting better gear during leveling was from group content and max level gearing was from group content.
There were epic world drops, recipes that even raiders were using, the pvp system with world pvp, did not require a group either. Having a group was actually not ideal, due the DHK system.
Yes, the tier sets did drop at the dungeons and raids, but you could craft quite some decent gear or gather valuable things in the world.
There were folks on my realm, that were killing dragons all day, other did pick pocket, again others did run solo DM …
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I agree with you 100%. The content AND the rewards are there for everyone. If you don’t want to do the content, then don’t expect the rewards. To me, this is the eventuality of people being raised with participation trophies.
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You can miss me with that.
This is a paper tiger argument. And the way it is worded is pretty bad. All players should be rewarded for their time. Maybe not equal in terms of ilvl, as people that do the harder content will have more to show for it.
But reward people that put in the time. Do NOT keep pushing them down lower and lower each expansion. From BFA it was heroic tier, SL was normal tier and now DF will be LFR tier.
I’m not even a solo outdoor player and I can see the reason not to screw people over. Blizzard is lacking completely in the outdoors/exploration rpg area. That’s one of the reasons Classis was so popular, because there was a lot to do and explore outdoors as well.
You want a game to attract all people. And reward them for their time. You’re telling me that them having heroic gear from doing ALL THE CONTENT in the open world should not count. That’s absurd. Doesn’t mean they get to have mythic gear…but they do need to progress and get gear that is viable if they were wanting to start raiding, or M+ or pvp, then they could transition. Right now there is such a disparity between what casual players get, that they will never venture into those areas most times because they are so under-geared.
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This thread could have ended here, if someone said it that clearly. Still, some interesting discussion has come out of it.
“vs someone who puts effort in to participate in group oriented play?”
This is where your understand falls short. You’re assuming solo players aren’t willing to put in a good deal of effort. We are. Just not in groups. Nobody is asking for handouts.
My suggestion is that they include more challenging solo content (perhaps specially tuned dungeons) so that we can earn the drops we get. But we deserve a sense of progression too.
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