Is there some unfounded fear that open-world players will all of a sudden gain some fondness for raiding that they never had before?
Or are raiders worried that open-world will become “mandatory” because of ridiculous peer pressure?
Surely raiders don’t believe they should have their own class of iLvl, right?
What is it?
My understanding is that they don’t even think about open world players let alone care what ilvl they wear. It’s a problem when there are gearing systems that can be played in a degenerate way to gain power that mythic raiding doesn’t provide (titanforging being an almost infinitely farmable loop, benthic gear providing effects that make it more powerful than raid gear, etc.)
It’s unfathomable to them that they would do any sort of open world content. If open world gear isn’t irrelevant in their endgame, they might have to do the work required to obtain it!
But like open world players don’t want to be forced to raid. Raiders don’t want to be forced to do island expeditions, doesn’t seem unreasonable
Open world players ARE forced to raid (or m+/pvp) for the high ilvl gear.
And it’s a common complaint
They don’t.
What are you actually asking? why do they care if “open world players” get the same gear as them? that’s a very different question.
It’s tryhards who can’t keep their eyes off a gear source they feel will actually help them. World gear needs to be trash to them or else they’ll be forced to play the world and they hates it it’s raid-log or die with them.
At least that’s it to the best of my understanding. I just wish it wasn’t such a heinous grind to get cypher gear up. I’ve done the entire story and the weekly twice and have nowhere near enough points to even get it to come up off 233. That doesn’t make me want to play more. Actually it makes me want to sit back and chill until DF.
Any time the game is “over” but there’s still 2-3 times played time in pure grind, my eyes glaze over and I find something else to do. Like forums!
They dont btw
Maybe they irrationally fear that if my world quest suddenly gave me I level 280 gear I’d queue up for mythic raids me and 30 other people and suddenly these PUGS would be a colossal failure
Or raid groups would request their members to farm World content which is something they don’t want to do
It’s likely the belief that power and reward should be commensurate to challenge, which I also agree with though I’m not a raider. That being said, I also don’t think I’d care much if a WQ to solve a puzzle that takes less than 2 seconds (using poco, the only thing he’s good for) awarded a 270 piece of gear. It’d just be something else I could aim for easily.
I used to be part of the camp that only thought my gear is “valuable” due to its rarity and “challenge” to get, but the game basically throws gear at us now so it’s kind of moot. Actual performance is what determines a good player, not just their gear.
I’ve seen people in full 272s out dpsed by someone in 260s who knows what they’re doing. Sure, at certain ranged gear will outpace performance but generally speaking, you need both. And giving easy gear to people won’t change that, so by all means, I’d love for WQs to drop me some 278 weapons lol.
Not a raider, but I’m guessing the main concern is raiders feeling ‘forced’ to do open world content for gear as well.
I know everyone likes high ilvl gear but it has two different purposes for the two play styles: Higher ilvl gear allows raiders and M+ players to push more difficult content. Higher ilvl gear for open world players just help trivialize the content.
I do think it is the fear of being required to do more chores to stay competitively geared, and having raided seriously in the past, I do understand that fear to an extent.
However, once you start saying things like, “Well let the casuals have Normal-level gear at the end of the tier when you’re all already in Mythic gear anyway” and they still get angry, then it gets a little less clear to me, and becomes more I think about “I gamed more gamerly than you gamer-gamed so my game is gamer than yours, so nyah.”
I think it’s more so many just operate on the mindset of: “Greatest rewards come from the greatest challenges.” Which is fair in all honesty. I will admit it does defeat the purpose of raids/Rated PvP to a degree, as well as sounding a bit silly, if I can just log on, kill 10 rats and get a mythic level, best in slot pair of gloves and log off.
its not the raiders.
if the outside world gave equivalent gear, the number of people raiding would dip below justifiable levels and the raid designers would be redundant.
raiders don’t care in the slightest and would probably enjoy the occasional upgrade from world quests.
Frankly, I don’t care what gear anyone has on, it doesn’t change my life. But I do think that harder content should equate to better rewards. Someone who is only running around killing ZM rares, upgrading their cypher, and farming mounts probably shouldn’t be rewarded with 278 epics primarily because you don’t need that item level to complete the content your taking part in.
At the same time, there should also be something that motivates someone who primarily plays alone in the open world to engage in the group content that the game has, and gear is a motivating factor.
This.
Why should someone be rewarded with the best gear in the game for doing something that poses no challenge to them? There is no difficulty whatsoever in open world content. You can’t even die unless you go afk.
I’d rather the game try have relatively equal difficulty to reward ratios in the game when it comes to gear more than anything else.
I think world content being equal to normal raids after progressing it for a month or 2 is fine as it currently is.
I don’t think people that do high end content really care about what other people do in WoW, it’s more akin to “I could do this super difficult fight and have a chance to get this amazing gear or I could just do these boring world quests and get the same gear and now I don’t really have a reason to raid because the most exciting thing about it are the rewards.”
It’s not all of them. But there certainly are many.
The biggest issue right now is that gear is the only interesting reward in the game to so many people, regardless of playstyle. And it’s apparent that many people want to feel appropriately rewarded for their time and effort, you know, because it’s a video game and that’s kinda the point. Do something, get that dopamine hit.
Some people want to feel like they earned that hit, others just want to get it for putting the time in. This is where the problem comes in.
Without that feeling of incentive, there’s not much else keeping folks invested. If someone who seeks a reward from a challenge can get that reward without besting the challenge, the challenge becomes meaningless. On the flipside, if someone puts time into the game and doesn’t feel rewarded for their time, that time spent becomes meaningless.
This is the result of the WoW devs putting so much stock into ilvl as THE primary reward in the game. They made it worse by falling back exclusively to RNG and foregoing the badge systems they created (that other games have been thriving with I might add), and then further reducing the feeling of being rewarded from all walks of life in the game.
This isn’t so much an “us vs them” thing, it’s just a pretty lousy design path the game’s taken in regard to its reward structure, and everyone fighting amongst themselves for the scraps left behind by a dev team who doesn’t respect anyone’s time.