Ive seen plenty of people consider firelock (the spec used in many meta speedruns) a memespec, and even some hardcore mages consider every warlock a memespec, and plenty people defending feral as not meme (it is meme imo).
You still think everybody agrees to a universal understanding of what is and isnt a memespec by definition??
Youâre listing examples of outliers discussing the validity of specs in very niche scenarios and claiming that these discussions are something that happens all the time.
Perfect example of what youre saying: id call cat feral a meme(due to the crippling reliance on MCPs), but Bear is 100% viable and in fact is better than Warriors on some fights (Broodlord Lashlayer, Emps melee side, Patchwerk hateful soak).
I main tanked every encounter in Wrath normal and heroic as a Warrior tank and it was fine. Without a doubt some things would have been easier but it wasnât that big of a hurdle.
Thatâs kind of the gray area with this stuff. WoW players are notorious for reading an opinion on whatâs âbestâ and thatâs that, only the best can do it. For specific cases thatâs what you want, but it isnât always black and white like that.
Shall we go by what âall the timeâ is in your book?? Id say these discussions happen way more often than âall the timeâ thenâŚ
This thread is a perfect example of my point
You have like 5 people arguing with you about ele being a meme spec vs just you making your case for why under specific scenarios ele isnât bad
The fact that you even have to try and make a case for yourself and have to argue with most people that are discussing this with you about whether or not ele is a meme spec shows that MOST people are in agreement about what is and isnât a meme spec.
You are the minority here, most people do not share your opinion on ele shaman in pve.
So if one in every 6 people disagree on 1 of the specs, extrapolate that to every other memespec (since they all fall under the same universal definition in your opinion) and youd get that most people actually disagree on memespecs to some extent.
Just to be curious Âżwhat even is your definition of memespec? mine is non-meta in speedruns.
A spec that is significantly inferior to other specs/classes for the role it is being brought for and lacks any unique utility that makes up for its deficits elsewhere, or its only unique utility/buffs are so insignificant that bringing a different spec/class instead of it is more of an overall net increase to the raids performance
Thats a good definition but what would you bring instead of an ele shaman to increase raid the raids performance?
An Ele/Resto that only DPSs on fights that donât need him healing. Unironically the Meta
Depends on the comp, but a mage/warrior/rogue/warlock would all be preferable for a dps slot, and a resto shaman if more totems were needed
Theres nothing that an ele shaman brings to the table that a resto shaman wouldnât also bring, and there are many classes that provide more dps
Would an ele shaman âruinâ a good raid comp? No, but it would never be on my list of things to bring if i could create a group from scratch and had access to any class/spec i would want
Ele/Resto and Ele are the same thing. Every ele shaman in pve uses the ele/resto spec unless he is trolling.
This is an actual viable strategy for pushing speed clears, but its less âsafeâ and the shaman is effectively a resto shaman for 90% of the raid.
Its more for squeezing out a few more seconds/minutes on speedclear times when you have a group that can handle it, definitely not a strategy for any random group just trying to clear the raid
Well sort of. Thereâs a lot of ways to build. What I mean is youâre a healer first without enough Ele talents to be viable. Most of the memers going all the way to Elemental Mastery then Resto are not the meta Iâm talking about
Yeah exactly, requires people being more consume heavy too to offset the loss of deep resto. Was just making an argument for it. Pre-Naxx itâs more justifyable.
I still found most âEle Shamanâ tried to refuse to heal when possible and took innervates and PI to get reasonable DPS.
Thats kind of my point
There are many outlier situations where meme specs can be situationaly bis, but they often require very specific compositions and sweaty/wierd strats.
I dont really consider those niche situations being relevant in the discussion of meme spec viability overall and how the community views them in the majority of situations.
Speed run strats are very different from normal raids and feature all kinds of stuff that would could be considered griefing if used out of the context of a speed run (like pulling double drakes in 99% of bwl runs would be considered a troll)
In naxx the only boss that requires significantly more healing than the rest of the raid is Saph, so the Ele would only heal that boss when needed (and maybe 1 emergency heal cast on loatheb). Dps 90%+ of the raid.
How many Flasks of Distilled Wisdom you using? Those fights are pretty long for an Ele unless theyâre using their raids innervate.
Also would much prefer to have them healing Patch unless weâre literally just up a healer
Yeah innervates to the ele is troll and only worth it on loatheb. PI on the other hand is pretty good on an ele because it ligns up with the crazy burst, and you can get way more of them than a mage throughout the raid.
0, ele mana efficiency is not nearly as bad as people say it is and is very manageable.
That makes sense to play it safer but if its a speedrun and the healers are enough youâd rather the shaman dps to cut a few seconds off the fight.
Its arguable and i dont really have the numbers to definitively say, but i feel like having more shamans being able to rotate healing/drinking on trash pulls to continuously chain pull with zero breaks for mana would be faster than having shamans dps on trash pulls, unless your whole raid is going full green mana potion sweat mode