Nobody was giving orders to Garithos. He was the last remaining high ranking officer/noble left in Lordaeron. That was why the rest of the Alliance recognized him and sent him aid, primarily Ironforge.
Garithos was the one who made all the decisions for good or ill.
He didn’t wage the campaign for the Horde at all .
He literally does this, because he believes that they are in some mortal danger from Anduin’s lack of ability of all things. He doesn’t wage the war for the Horde…what? You claim he doesn’t wage war for the Horde, then don’t answer what it was for.
He didn’t do anything in response to the burning of Teldrassil (challenge her leadership immediately, delay the orders, what have you).
Okay. He literally defects, and dies, because of the Hordes lack of honor at Teldrassil. You don’t continue to fight for something you don’t find honorable. The Horde weren’t fighting for survival whatsoever in Darkshore. The fact that you want him to cripple the Alliance before his own ideals SCREAMS why you can’t understand this character. Do you think of Saurfang’s last thoughts were of his son? ‘Stupid brat couldn’t even cripple the Alliance on his way out.’ This isn’t a quote of him. But, he tosses a certain memento into a brazier… whatever. Meaningless gesture I suppose to the meme man. I guess if you can’t comprehend why he didn’t immediately attack Sylvanas on Darkshore, then there is no hope of his ideals, and sacrifice getting through to you.
starts attacking the Horde while it’s in conflict with its long-standing enemy that would destroy it, rather than preserving the Horde against this enemy .
You can’t get around this scenario with this character. If he fought her on the beach, you would be saying the same thing, and parroting what Sylvanas would have said about the same situation.
An extremely lost Roleplayer
Well, kinda. Technically there were two such agencies in Lordaeron, as Alexandros and his Silver Hand army was still resisting the Scourge. However it seems between the countryside being overrun and Garithos (along with his army) being mind-controlled by Detheroc soon after they headed into Lordaeron proper from Dalaran, the two armies never interacted, so it’s hard to say who would have been “in charge” if they’d actually managed to get in touch with one another and coordinate their efforts against the Scourge.
Garithos was a nobleman, but so too were a number of the leading Silver Hand paladins, so it’s feasible that Mograine and perhaps even Dathrohan, Tyrosus or High General Abbendis would have outranked him if that situation had ever arisen.
This is a really bad generalization. 
seriously, never heard of?
I liked Saurfang before BfA, cos he represented the raw strength part of the Horde.
and I already admitted that in BfA, he wasn’t the one who he was before. (Cos writers needed him to be like that in order to make Suevanas Suevanas.)
Of course I didn’t liiike him as I liiiike Anduin but I think that’s enough for an Alliance fan. Cos to me, the basic characteristics of Saurfang was almost same as those of Varian.
I view it as a recognition of writing style. I do a lot of work in editing and fiction writing and it’s a fine line that can be hard to see at times. It’s sort of like recognizing what is out of character for a given subject.
BfA had a heavy use of both Framing and dragging the characters around by the nose. The plot was leading, not the characters themselves. The destination is the same, but the way it gets there is different. Both take the same car, but the ideal is the characters are driving the car, as opposed to being stuffed in the trunk.
Edit: It should also be noted that the story we saw for Saurfang clearly wasn’t the original one. The high end cinematics, for instance, don’t mention anything about Teldrassil, if I remember right, and just talk about ‘the war’. The story we saw wasn’t what his final arc was supposed to be, at least in terms of bridging the gap, and that should be noted too.
Old Soldier did, IIRC.
That little split second of screaming and burning is kind of a disservice if thats all the NE fans and Alliance get where those short movies are concerned.
thats the reason i like saurfang before bfa.
“Honor, young heroes. No matter how dire the battle, never forsake it.”
Except when you have to help a genocide a little bit, just act like it never happened.
thats the reason i said “before bfa”
I liked him before the expansion, and during it. Sort of felt like I had to considering how many cinematic were queued up.
I suppose so, although I still don’t really “get it.” But then again, it might just be my ignorance speaking or something, I dunno.
I think I just feel that, to me, it ultimately doesn’t matter if the story originally went another way, or should have gone that way instead. All I know is what went live, and I don’t feel like a character’s anachronistic moments should be overlooked when they were greenlit anyway. That just becomes part of their character as well.
That realy wasn’t the issue. What yanked the chains of of Horde players was that these heroes of the Horde were spending their time serving the Alliance. Or as a followup cheerleader when Sylvasnnas did his thing.
The real issue here is that the characters were not empowered in the story line. Saurfang is either moping in his Stormwind cell or he’s marching off to seek Death By Alliance. And there isn’t anything empowering about Baine’s appearances at all.
No one else gets any better treatment. Thaylassra plays a poor third fiddle to Jaina, and Vol-jin is nothing more than a literal shadow of his former self.
Meanwhile the Alliance gets all of the Heroic poses and for the most part the Horde characters are either just there for the ride or getting smacked down.
Baine is problematic because in addition to this as a Sylvannas loyalist you actualy have to aid his treason.
But most of all, Horde players are sick and tired of being handed the evil stick… and having to walk the apology trail every expac. The game is supposed to be about two competitive empiress jousting for position, influence, and resources, not being placed into flat roles of Black Hat and White Hat.
these heroes of the Horde were spending their time serving the Alliance.
They’re complacent with what the Horde is doing under Sylvanas, until they’re literally having their lives undermined by what she would have them do, and remain silent about. They’re not serving the Alliance.
and Vol-jin is nothing more than a literal shadow of his former self.
The dude died. I like the character, and all that good stuff. But, why would be not be a shell of himself after his death?
“hurting the Horde’s enemies is objectively good 100% of the time” is considered a sacred, unassailable axiom.
They are tired of the villain bat, but it seems pretty strange to just want to avoid the villainous part, and have increasingly heinous acts commuted. Ain is totally correct in what you replied too.
Saurfang is either moping in his Stormwind cell or he’s marching off to seek Death By Alliance.
This is the LEAST generous account of his actions you could possibly make. The Orc dies for his cause, and for what his son died for. He spends more scenes fighting the Alliance then he does in their custody. When he leaves Stormwind, he is focused on reclaiming the Horde’s integrity from a monster.
Saurfang didn’t carry out his threat because he was sidetracked by intense grief and depression over the death of his son Dranosh. It’s bad enough for a parent to outlive their offspring, but Saurfang suffered worse because he lost his son TWICE. When Dranosh died the first time at the Wrathgate, Saurfang was saddened, but tried to take solace in the idea that his son had died a Warrior’s death. Unfortunately, the Lich King Arthas robbed Dranosh of that death and reanimated him as an undead that Saurfang was forced to kill (or watched die), losing his son again. And the second time around, Dranosh died not like a warrior but like a wounded animal that had the be put out of its misery. That’s what devastated Saurfang so much that after the Lich King’s defeat in Wrath, he stayed in Northrend to cope with his loss.
It wasn’t until late into MoP when Garrosh became a full-blown tyrant that Saurfang recovered from enough of his grief to support Thrall and the Darkspear rebellion.
I like Saurfang because he’s a complex character and I sympathize with his plight as he struggles to make amends for his past sins.
If it required spurring on by someone else, and wasn’t made of his own volition, then it wasn’t sincerely for that purpose. It was because someone told him to.
In stark contrast to who Saurfang was, who would do this at a drop of his hat, no hesitation.
The Horde isn’t just Sylvanas, though. It isn’t just Thrall. It isn’t just Baine. The Horde is the Horde, and everyone within it that consists of its own makeup. It is as much as Varok’s as it is Sylvanas’.
Like a country. There are absolutely deplorable people within it, but there are also people of better standing, and the worst don’t define it- even if they can smear its good name by existence within it.
That scene with his son’s amulet actually makes my point. He cared about this thing, more than anyone, he gave his own flesh and blood to it. He’s killed for it. Prior to BFA, Saurfang would fight for it.
I think you envision the Horde by its Warchief, rather than what it is, heart and soul, and that it is more than just the whims of one character. Anyone could fill the seat of the Warchief. But there is only one Horde.
Him dying on the beach would had been more form fitting for Saurfang than the emotional car crash of an old man he was throughout the entirety of BFA. He is exactly the sort of guy to die on his feet, not just give up.
Also.
He even spared Anduin in the hopes that he’d do the dirty work, because he didn’t want to (rather than crippling the war campaign of the Alliance and lessening the amount of steps required to defang any threat they might pose, before turning attention inward, if he didn’t challenge her at Teldrassil right there and then). These two should be massive warning bells. The guy is a fighter.
“Honor, young heroes. No matter how dire the battle, never forsake it.”
YOU are the one beholden to the whims of a tyrant over anything that the Horde remotely hold as a position of pride.
There is nothing dishonorable about killing an enemy combatant.
If the war is on, and there’s no going back, the only sensible option is to win it. Or fight it to a point where it can’t bite you in the rear when you turn your attention inwards. Again, at this point, this isn’t something that can be solved with words, they will stop at nothing.
But he didn’t really do that. He just engaged in habits that were destructive to himself and to the Horde. Waging a civil war in the middle of its fight against a battle that, if failed, would mean annihilation, is actively hindering the one thing he cares about more than anything else on the planet.
Saurfang fighting and dying on the beach would had been more appropriate for him as a character, because he would had died for what he believed in, rather than doing something he wouldn’t do.
There is nothing dishonorable about killing an enemy combatant.
Why are their multiple whingeing pangs of guilt about him sending rogues to do his bidding?
The character is a character who isn’t just guilty, the dude FEELS guilty. They are massacring non-combatants all through the March, basically that’s all they’re doing.
The war is on, and there’s no going back? It literally ends with a Saurfang going back… The Horde’s enemies literally stop, over nothing, according to you… because, after all. What does it matter to you what he’s doing anyway?
He dies for what he believes in, in full view of the Horde, instead of with his back to the genocide, and his face towards his shame.