I don’t get it. I understand his past legend and the opening of AQ as an example of it. However I can’t understand why people like his BfA version.
In my view his whole story during BfA was wrong and undermined the Horde to the extreme. However this is not meant as rant on my part. I bet many of you saw at least some arguments for this view about Saurfang. The only thing I can guess, is that some saw him, for what ever reason, as a n “opposition” (if you even call his story such) to Sylvanas and as a way to get rid of a character they often hated since quite some time.
Am I wrong on that? I think it fits for at least some people. Why did others like this arch and why is Saurfang still liked?
Is this one of those threads that certain Horde players complain about being villain batted but are disgusted by anyone refusing to tow the line with the genocidal tyrant villain?
As for Saurfang.
He was supposed to be the character representing the Orcs that lived through it all and now “wanted to be better” but entirely failed to do so when it mattered most and his great sacrifice was to scratch the edge queen and make her throw a temper tantrum.
Not a good end for such a good character concept. He would have been better served by dying in his suicide attack in Battle for Lordaeron.
I kinda liked Saurfang. Cos um well at least he represented the Horde who’s against wrong Sylvanas. I mean who could possibly be in that position.
But yeah he was a huge victim of Sylvanas obssessed writers. It’s not quite Saurfang I liked before. And I don’t like the Makgora scene, like, at all.
Well at least he made several full cinematics… about his own story.
I guess he had it going for him that he opposed Sylvanas…
I personally hated him because he also had his important part in the War of Thorns, and then he got 4 (!!!) cinematics all for himself. He took the spotlight away from those that would’ve really needed it, and then the BfA faction war was all about him while the victims that had to pay the price for all of this were entirely forgotten and ignored and left to die out.
I actually don’t think Kaz cares too much about the villain batting element, but yeah that is exactly what this thread is. And despite the fact that I didn’t mind Saurfang’s story arc in BfA as an independent story (because I “got” what they were going for with it), you can’t really separate it from BfA … so it was not executed nearly well enough to compensate for that. I “got it”, but that’s not enough to save it amongst the Meta narrative of BfA.
I don’t know how they could possibly think this when he literally says him sacrificing himself wont absolve him of his sins. The guy literally says in the game that all he cares about by the end of the War was giving the the next generation a chance at the Honor he came to believe his generation was never worthy of.
Forum Mod Edit: This post has been edited by a moderator due to masked language as it is in violation of the Code of Conduct.
Why I like him. It’s easy he is one of the few orcs in game that showed a positive and humane side of orcs. The rest are mostly orc smash, zug zug. Minus thrall.
Guess real answer is he is one of the few developed orcs in game that wasn’t villain batted.
No that’s not what this thread is an yes I’m bothered by the Horde villain batting since MoP. I have nothing against conflicts, but I would like it more if those were told in a different way.
This notion is strange to me, because Saurfang was for the war, he planed the war. His whole story undermines this exact point. He did nothing until Anduin pointed him to the “light”. Like I said before, I don’t want to rant about it. I want perspectives of people that like Saurfangs BfA story.
Hm in a way they destroyed this for me during BfA. Thanks for your perspective.
The only real way Saurfang’s story works is if you pickup up on a few subtle things in A Good War. Most of which is so subtle, they’d fly under people’s radar. For one, Saurfang (not Sylvanas) is the one to bring up Stormheim. The deciding factor in his succumbing to her arguments (that clearly were designed because she figured they’d work on him), is because of Anduin’s lack of response to Stormheim. Meaning that at best, Sylvanas was right, and that Anduin was too weak a leader to resist the calls to war by Genn and Tyrande (who actually were lowkey doing that btw). At worst, he was complict in that act. Which convinced him that the Alliance were going attack them (and if any of the events proceeding the WoT were allowed to count, they kind of already were).
2nd, Saurfang mentions that he had a growing suspicion that Sylvanas wasn’t telling him everything about her reasons for wanting the War. But he pushed those doubts aside because he made the assumption that whatever they were, they were “For the Horde”. Which when she burns Teld, part of his crisis is realizing that he made the wrong assumption … and he never had any idea why she wanted the conflict. Which does play into why he didn’t trust his own judgement enough to deal with her in the fallout of the WoT. Plus, its not like he could have won.
Next, him being suicidal only works if you know his extended lore, and how severe something would have to be to get him to that state. With part of his gaining such loyalty from the MU Orcish people being from his counseling Orcish veterans of the opposing side of the 3rd war, helping them to not commit suicide due to what they were forced to do while under the control of the Fel. So for what Saurfang to be pushed to attempted suicide himself or what Sylvie made him complicit in with Teld … its a big thing.
Lastly, as much BS as there was from Anduin in “The Negotiation”, but that content was actually very strong for Saurfang. With him reflecting on the horrors of the Old Horde; recognizing that his generation (including himself) were never worthy of the honor he aspires to; and simply realizing that all he really wants now is to give the next generation of Horde a chance at the honor he could never claim to have (as he does see them as more worthy). Even going so far as to essentially imply that his death wont absolve him of “the shackles of his past”.
So … like I said. In an isolated bubble, Saurfang’s story in AGW and BfA is reasonable enough, even if the execution was fairly poor. However, within the greater meta narrative of BfA … that “reasonable enough” storytelling isn’t enough to save it. A single small story bogged down so much by the greater story.
That’s the only thing I agree with you on this and yes the one cinematic with his dead son in it was good. That’s literally it. For me at least. They ruined him so hard, it’s strange to me.
That’s likley the worst part. It undoes Thralls Horde and every progress after MoP. It’s so mindbogglingly stupid and puts the Horde down once more. It’s simply villain baiting the entire faction all over again and Anduin has to save them. Great.
I disagree his story is not even close to anything I would call “sensible enough”. It really shows how out of touch the writers are.
Not quite. I said that’s the only thing I can think off and the thing you answered. I made this thread as a clear question on what people like about Saurfangs story.
See without knowing what exactly they ruined about him for you, its hard to discuss it. Outside of Anduin giving him a nudge? Saurfang more nuanced storytelling was always buried as side-mentions in extended lore books. His general popularity always revolved around him being essentially a Whirlwind Meme.
As for your issue with the Negotiation, Saurfang admitting the Old Horde (his generation of Horde that created the Path of Glory) was garbage … doesn’t really do anything to invalidate all the progress Thrall’s Horde had made. No more than what BfA itself had already done. Where the entire faction was made a convenient plot-device for Sylvie’s story, and Blizz using her to settup this SLs expansion. It was actually a fairly good character moment for him, and for that old generation of Orcs in general. As was his implication that death would not absolve him; which stands pretty deeply in contrast with both Grom and Doomhammer.
