it’s 2021 and I’m still waiting for Justice for the Vancleef’s
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Now thats a headcanon if I haven’t seen one.
Where do these people go to see this dark racist Alliance? I must have missed it.
Yes they whip them or throw boots at them but they pay them, don’t forget at anytime the peon can challenge the overseer in combat , they can leave if they want to because they are not slaves, they are orcs that don’t want to fight and want to belong in a clan, so they have to pull they weight helping the clan or be expel and the clan will do everything to stop you from being expel through “encouragement” in the only way they know. Remember that the whole clan will die protecting a peon, it is also in a questline.
Peons are pretty much the slave labour second class citizens of the Orc society.
Thrall tried to make changes but he was ultimately unsuccessful.
Another flaw in the BfA bubble is that it also ignores that Saurfang didn’t carry out his threat when Garrosh went off the rails, and that Garry’s warcrime-happy Horde was really popular with the younger orcs who grew up in human-ran camps.
The Orc story has really been flip-floppy to excuse villain-battling the Horde.
He also ignored a slave-trade under his nose that let a human king replicate his origin-story.
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Um … Right? Surely they weren’t some sort of handicapped orcs? Weak, weak-willed, cowardly and stupid.
And the fact that they can challenge the overseer … I don’t know. Do they want to challenge the overseer?
The desire to challenge. Not a possibility. Not a desire not to work.
And even if they get paid. How does peon spend the money it earns? For food, water and renting a plot of land in the barracks? “You work for me 24 hours an hour. Here’s your cent. GO WORK!”
It seems that in the quest chain the vulpera one peon raised a rebellion, but the rebellion was suppressed by appointing the instigator of the rebellion as an overseer.
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Ok then I will detail all the racist manners of the Alliances:
- Classism: Nobles and peasants. Nobles take advantage of the peasants (VanCleef questline)
- Xenophobia: Main example-Blood Elves leaving the Alliance: during the 3rd war, the Alliance kept sacrificing the Blood Elves as frontline fodder which Illidan saved them from and where Sylvanas killed the General doing that.
3)Superiority complex: The Draenei-Never fully try to coexist with the Orcs and share knowledge and called them savages. The Night Elves-Never tried to coexist or accept other cultures except their own secular religion and for centuries have killed anyone not a night elf entering their territories, even wounded soldiers. - Puritanistic Tendencies: Night elves-Removal of any religion, person , culture not part of their secular religion. Humans-unable to accept different sect or religion not part of an ideologic view of the Church. Gnomes-unaccepting of other ways of thinking than the ideological one set by the Tinkmasters. And ALL are against the mixing of the races (Gorona, Med’an, Lantresor of the Blade).
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Class division is not racism. Property distribution form.
“Justified” xenophobia. Garithos had some kind of tragedy regarding his family and the lack of help from the high elves. And the high elves seem to have somehow “betrayed” humans. Lack of serious support on the Scourge issue? Not sure.
Draenei shouldn’t be braided. Very little is known about their experiences with the natives of the planets they visited.
No one has visited the night elves for thousands of years. Orcs, as soon as they appeared, began to destroy their sacred groves. They saw humans alongside the orcs. And people also destroyed their groves.
The previous night elf culture caused the Legion to invade Kalimdor. In the ten thousand years that night elves have existed, other cultures have not tried to fit into night elf society. Within this culture, new cultures did not arise.
I mean I could make arguments as to why you are wrong point by point but I doubt you would change your opinion.
I mean Blood Elves had to deal with Garithos and that somehow makes him representative of the entire Alliance when he was racist against everybody.
The King of high elves was racist against humans too and lets not get started with the Highborn superiority complex.
As for the rest of the things you say… pure headcanon pure and simple with runaway incomprehensible logic that is difficult to follow.
And when did Alliance oppose inter race relarionships?
The Windrunner sisters all have 1 human BF and only the Horde one failed to make babies with their hubby to be.
But I do find it sad that some players have to resort to imagination and gross perversion of facts while willfully ignoring the hypocrisies of their own side to somehow make an Alliance faction they could hate.
I guess Alliance players enjoy a narrative that allows them to easily hate the otherside and justify their dislike while players like Deathpiea has to just make things up to get to the same point.
Class division is racism:
- racism means-I hold myself above others and using physical, material…etc anything or condition that is hard for whomever I feel superior to to change ie: skin color, property, mental capacity…
- Division- where and how do you think the Division started? someone somewhere decided to oppress, steal, abuse, neglect someone so that they have and always have more than the other ie: using social stigma (work shaming), inventing taboos (anything sex related), use of religion(church and habits), where one live( city vs village) etc… criticizing what someone wear, where they live, who they love, whom they worship, they are practicing some form of racism.
Garithos survived the scourge lead by a Human but still hate the Blood elves somehow.
Draenei spent 10000 years on Dreanor and not many halflings or never shared knowledge and never told the orcs about the fallen Naaru or the Burning Legion or not one Orc pally living in Shattrath.
And the Night Elves were killing anyone that entered the forrest, ANYONE not of night elven sect, they killed Trolls, humans… Until the War forced them to accept allies. BTW, Tyrande never once go back and tell the Nightborne that all is ok now and when She could talk to them, told them to abandon their ways and accept the night elven religion only.
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What do you mean JUST Garithos? Who do you think give orders to Garithos? Why do you think all the Human kingdoms stayed secluded and only war and destruction brings them together, they hate themselves. The orcs fight each only to determine who has the bigger staff or ovaries and any orcs can join any Clan regardless of where they come from. In Alliance society, if you are from Westfall, stay in Westfall, they need a portion of the population to stay servile because labor and free time for hedonisms for the other portion.
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Probably a little bit too late for a real-ish answer but screw it:
- Memes. He hit like, crazy hard, and it made for awesome crit videos when someone got off a mind control. Seriously, there’s a reason they built a second entrance into Orgrimmar.
- The AQ speech. This was back when NPCs really didn’t do things like that, and it wasn’t bad for its day. Plus, this is where they tied him in with Broxigar, who did major lore stuff nobody cares about because it happened in a Knaak book.
- Saurfang the Younger. This is pretty much where Blizzard became aware of the memes and Chuck Norris facts and decided to roll with it. The son is like the father, may the spirits have mercy on us all.
And so from there he pretty much becomes a major lore character from what was really nothing.
I don’t think his BfA storyline was competently told, but I liked what they were trying to do with it. How Thrall’s Horde has really been a brief glimmer of hope in a long life of warfare and all that. I wish it hadn’t taken up so much screentime, and that they had a better direction for Tyrande and Malfurion, but then again, after the last expansion, Blizzard could have had a reasonable worry that their fanbase had been Stormraged out.
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Is racism a manifestation of hatred, contempt, limitation of rights, preference, other things being equal, for another on the basis of race? But not property. This will be a property qualification. Or am I confused something? You can seek advice from search engines; if you stay within the forum, go to Baalsamael.
What is Division?
Yes. He is xenophobic. It can be understood.
We do not know the details of their interaction with the natives of other planets. Yes, they did not discuss their arrival with the orcs. I suggest waiting for the details of their experiences as refugees to be sure of their racism or multiple traumatic experiences.
What kind of trolls? They “ignored” the existence of the Dark Trolls in Hyjal. The night elves killed humans and orcs because they destroyed their groves.
Yes, they only made an alliance because of the Legion problem. The orcs and humans “attacked” the night elves first.
I know very little about Suramar. Tyrande expressed doubts about Thalyssra’s future. The issue of changing religion / culture was not raised (?).
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Расизм - проявление ненависти, презрения, ограничения в правах, предпочтение при прочих равных другого по признаку расы? Но не собственность. Это будет имущественный ценз. Или я что-то перепутал? Можно обратиться за консультацией к поисковым системам; если оставаться в пределах форума - к Baalsamael.
Что такое Division?
Да. Он ксенофоб. Его можно понять.
Мы не знаем подробностей об их взаимодействии с аборигенами других планет. Да, они не обсуждали с орками вопрос о своем прибытии. Предлагаю дождаться подробностей об их опыте бытия беженцами, чтобы быть уверенными в их расизме или многочисленном травматичном опыте.
Каких именно троллей? Они “игнорировали” существование Темных троллей на Хиджале. Ночные эльфы убивали людей и орков, потому что они разрушали их рощи.
Да, они заключили союз только из-за проблемы Легиона. Орки и люди “напали” на ночных эльфов первыми.
Крайне мало знаю о Сурамаре. Тиранда высказывала сомнения относительно будущего Талисры. Вопрос о смене вероисповедования/культуры не поднимался (?).
My answer remains the same, people remember the portrayals of the character in the past, as opposed to BfA. Keep in mind that Saurfang was all but totally absent for Cata, MoP, WoD, and Legion. So we’re talking six years of him being what I described, versus a year or so of him being as he was in BfA. The first six years of WoW resonate with many people far, far more than anything else, mostly because narrative wise there’s more cohesion with WC3. I mean, many people still consider the Cata versions of zones to be the ‘new versions’.
Moreover, it’s important to separate a character from the story. Blizzard has very few bad characters, but the stories they use them for are bad. They write an ending and then slot in a character they feel fits well, and then the plot leads them around by the nose as opposed to letting them drive the plot. Taken in a bubble, Saurfang is a very compelling character even in BfA, it’s just the story mucked it up. Faction war tends to poison even the best and most popular of characters, and BfA’s story was clearly a mashed together and rushed version of a plot meant to carry over two expansions as opposed to half of one.
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Racism is the manifestation of everything meant to keep one superior over another. Vancleef cannot challenge the king to Mak’gora. Before the sundering and for 10000 years after that, the night elves were killing anyone who venture into their territories and removed anyone who stray from their secular ways. Except Tauren, whom were kinda accepted because of their druidic affinity and worship a form of Elune (the eye of the Earthmother).
And for the Nightborne, either complete Suramar’s storyline or roll a nightborne and talk to Thalyssra at the beginning before taking the portal and hear her thoughts.
Night elves? Suramar? Yikes, you guys derailed this thread faster than a penny on a train track.
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@Baalsamael, is the class division of society racist?
@Deathpeia, my knowledge is forum discussions. What I remember is the headcanon. Could you enlighten me?
@Poised … Probably not worth reacting.
"If you want to shut up the nelf -
Don’t talk to him at all … "
Russian
@Baalsamael , является ли классовое разделение общества расизмом?
@Deathpeia , мои знания - обсуждения на форуме. Что запомнил - такой и headcanon. Не могли бы вы меня просвятить?
@Poised … Наверно, не стоило реагировать.
“If you want to shut up the nelf -
Don’t talk to him at all…”
Eh, I don’t know if I can agree with the sentiment of separating characters from the story. The story is the only way these characters express themselves at all, so I don’t see why it shouldn’t reflect badly on them if the story they’re tell is a poor one.
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Tell me who then.
Ey yo what is this dude on about?
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