Why do people keep asking for changes?

[Williams-akama (Williams)]

The distrust runs deeper than that because the developers are not the maker of the rules in big corporations like Activsion.

Big companies like Activsion do not listen to their developers, they do not care what the game developers think or have to say, they only care that projected income values and numerical goals are met so that board of directors meetings can be rainbows and unicorns with butterflies.

This puts the developers into a really bad and unfair place because they want to provide their fanbase with the game they have been begging for now over a decade while Activsion only sees the product as a means to prop up their stock values for another quarter…

[Ellilaine-gilneas (Ellilaine)]

Asking for those things specifically, and asking for guild banks for item security are…wait for it…TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

This again? How many times does it have to be demonstrated that guild banks add zero security before that argument stops being trotted out by the pro-change crowd?

[Studmuffyn-veknilash (Studmuffyn)]

I dunno ,actual viewable in game logs are a pretty good way of helping with that.

[Missuspowpow-proudmoore (Missuspowpow)]

You can start by demonstrating it the first time. It’s the difference between a GM shrugging their shoulders and saying they can’t/won’t scrutinize the transactions made in the alts’ banks and having a clear log of who took what and when.

The argument that always follows, which I assume you take as an undeniable refutation is that if the guild master or officer was given permissions to the bank and their account was not compromised, there is no violation and Blizz won’t do anything. This is true, but there are two things wrong with this.

1. If the guild master/officer was hacked the logs provide a record for the Blizz GM to restore

2. Even if the items are gone forever, there is proof of who took it, and players can take screenshots and warn others about the dishonest behavior. Without these logs, players rely on spreadsheets at best. The problem with spreadsheets is anyone can make up a lie about someone else not updating the spreadsheets properly. Even if untrue, the accusation is enough to make everyone else question reality. With a guild bank, the logs are there, and anyone withdrawing important items, especially in bulk will have to answer for why, and if they can’t, there is proof to show to the server of the player’s dishonesty.

You can be rude and dismissive all you want, but until you come up with a valid rebuttal to this, the concept of guild banks has both utility and merit. Plus, the only counter argument is a child screaming, “I don’t want it! I don’t want it!”

This is not to mention the other factors in the debate, such as the gold sink, account sharing, community aspect, etc.

[Xecks-stormrage (Xecks)]

oh god people actually bringing up guild banks again?

wow. gg.

[Tagatojin-wyrmrest-accord]

If you think the people asking for changes are bad now, just wait until actual launch. It’s going to be a cryfest for the first few months.

[Mogar-stormrage (Mogar)]

But we’ll be playing the game, not on the forum listening to the drivel.

[Tagatojin-wyrmrest-accord]

True! Freedom at last, until Tuesday maintenance

[Viceroy-hellscream]

LOL I figured Id crank up a sub and fool around in retail to get the feel of the game and just noticed today that when I went back to a low level zone all of the mobs had been scaled to my same level. Guess there is no farming of low level dongeons anymore huh? If they pull that crap in classic Ill be gone in a week. Better to leave things the way they were IMHO. Im looking forward to a 10 hour AV crawl again.

[Galdor-maelstrom (Galdor)]

But we’ll be playing the game, not on the forum listening to the drivel.

Unless there’s sharding, right?

[Fateweaver-misha (Fateweaver)]

Unless there’s sharding, right?

Probably.

[Ellilaine-gilneas (Ellilaine)]

You can start by demonstrating it the first time. It’s the difference between a GM shrugging their shoulders and saying they can’t/won’t scrutinize the transactions made in the alts’ banks and having a clear log of who took what and when.

The argument that always follows, which I assume you take as an undeniable refutation is that if the guild master or officer was given permissions to the bank and their account was not compromised, there is no violation and Blizz won’t do anything. This is true, but there are two things wrong with this.

1. If the guild master/officer was hacked the logs provide a record for the Blizz GM to restore
2. Even if the items are gone forever, there is proof of who took it, and players can take screenshots and warn others about the dishonest behavior. Without these logs, players rely on spreadsheets at best. The problem with spreadsheets is anyone can make up a lie about someone else not updating the spreadsheets properly. Even if untrue, the accusation is enough to make everyone else question reality. With a guild bank, the logs are there, and anyone withdrawing important items, especially in bulk will have to answer for why, and if they can’t, there is proof to show to the server of the player’s dishonesty.

You can be rude and dismissive all you want, but until you come up with a valid rebuttal to this, the concept of guild banks has both utility and merit. Plus, the only counter argument is a child screaming, “I don’t want it! I don’t want it!”

You are mistaking security for accountability. Yes, the logs make it easier to determine who “done you wrong” when it happens, however, that isn’t security. Security is stopping it from happening and guild banks actually decrease that. With a guild bank alt only the GM can “steal” from it unless they are hacked, with a guild bank the GM can still steal from it but so can every single member given any access permission. It also is much more vulnerable to being hacked as there are that many more accounts hackers can get into the bank by hacking. Sure most of those accounts will only have limited access but that is still more vulnerability to theft than the zero access those accounts have to an alt.

Security is compromised in order to increase convenience with guild banks, it’s a very simple fact…

[Missuspowpow-proudmoore (Missuspowpow)]

The knowledge that the logs exist acts as a preventative measure to stop people before they ‘do us wrong’ and the logs act as a convenient list for restore if applicable.

[Narya-kirin-tor (Narya)]

In Star Wars: The Old Republic, which has had guild cargo bays since before the first expansion came out, you can set “has an authenticator on the account” as a requirement for a certain guild rank, such that if you try to promote someone who doesn’t have one, it won’t work.

That, of course, has nothing to do with Classic, I’m just rambling. You probably shouldn’t have bothered to read this post.

[Starman-zangarmarsh (Starman)]

This is all fear mongering. “If I give my blessing on one logical change, IT WILL CASCADE INTO A WHOLE TROVE OF RIDICULOUS CHANGES”

This has been the fear since November of last year. We argue for guild banks for legit reasons, and people think we’re secretly trying to get transmog. It’s so ridiculous.

Look at Fesz’ posts from a month ago, accusing me of wanting mogging and flying because I want guild banks, when I’ve adamantly argued AGAINST mogging and flying.

[Starman-zangarmarsh (Starman)]

My point was to bring up the hypocritical double standard and bias when quoting the Classic devs. Telling people “the Classic devs already said no to Class balance, listen to their words!” and then going on to say “it doesn’t matter if the Classic devs said sharding would only be used temporarily, we don’t trust them!”

Look at the posts from the blues in Nov., 2017, and how people here dismissed what they said because they’re CS people.

Then look at the posts about CE pets from a month or so ago and how CS posts are now gospel.

[Starman-zangarmarsh (Starman)]

This again? How many times does it have to be demonstrated that guild banks add zero security before that argument stops being trotted out by the pro-change crowd?

Those “demonstrations” are horribly flawed and have been shown many times to be flawed.

[Fesz-cenarius]

My point was to bring up the hypocritical double standard and bias when quoting the Classic devs. Telling people “the Classic devs already said no to Class balance, listen to their words!” and then going on to say “it doesn’t matter if the Classic devs said sharding would only be used temporarily, we don’t trust them!”

Look at the posts from the blues in Nov., 2017, and how people here dismissed what they said because they’re CS people.

Then look at the posts about CE pets from a month or so ago and how CS posts are now gospel.

You neglect to mention that those posts from blues in Nov. 2017 were the personal opinions of those blues (and unless I am mistaken, they were stated as such), while the more recent posts from Ysithiens were about Blizzard’s position, not his personal opinion.

There is a world of difference between a personal opinion and Blizzard’s stance.

[Narya-kirin-tor (Narya)]

I suppose it’s possible that it’s just Ythisens’ opinion that people should play Classic because they want to play Classic or not at all, not because they expect rewards in Modern…

…but that’s sure not the way I’m going to bet.

[Fisticuffred-area-52 (Fisticuffred)]

The only “changes” I want are the original ogre models.

I want my two-polygon, roly-polies back.