Yep, that was the entire point of my post, I even stated as much.
i assume then you’re talking horizontal progression instead of vertical?
Yeah. Some guilds are gonna be that way. To each their own I guess.
Yes, I indeed am.
i could potentially support that. provided of course said changes didn’t invalidate other classes. can’t have druids shamans and paladins all of a sudden being dps power houses and invalidating rogues and hunters.
You literally cannot make any class viable without changing something fundamental to the game, the simplest and least painful is to change the gear, the problem with basically every class at end game is that there is no gear or set bonuses to support them. Talents are mostly fine, class skills are mostly fine, it is the gear that is the primary issue holding specific specs back.
there is a difference between a class being able to actually come to a raid and not feel like dead weight, and a class being competitive. a druid/shaman should not be able to pull the same damage as a rogue or hunter just based on how much utility both bring to the party/raid alone.
if i have a druid who can do 900 dps.
or a hunter who can do 1000 dps.
why bother with the hunter? the druid might be doing 100 less dps, but it brings innervate, party wide aura, and battle rez to the table.
the hunter brings tranq.
that is my point.
Which would be fine if whatever the lower dps class brought was as you noted enough to make up for their lack of dps.
In classic that is not the case particularly when you’re talking about hybrids who bring almost everything they can bring as dps when they’re healing anyways. That is the issue with balance in classic but knowing that going into it a lot of people won’t be getting bait and switched into playing hybrids for anything besides healing.
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I don’t think most ppl assume it will cause problems. On the contrary. The world will be overpopulated at first and then settle. But drop off is inevitable with every game. A lot of ppl will try it and just decide it isn’t for them.
yes but the problem is some people seem to want hybrids to be able to do equal or close to equal dps and yet keep all their utility.
hybrids doing 400 dps while pures do 1k is an issue.
hybrids doing 750 dps while pures do 1k is not an issue.
not sure why people struggle to see this. a drop off is normal for any game, and classic will be even more prone to this
the fact that its free with BFA means you can bank on a rather large drop off. Blizzard has said wow has always had a high turnover rate too
Sort of but two issues. First we are in the the first scenario, hybrid dps is so bad that their utility doesn’t make up for the lack of dps.
Second and more important we’ve seen what happens when hybrid dps is brought up relatively on par and it actually isn’t an issue. So the argument that hybrids can’t do good dps because it would invalidate other classes has simply been proven wrong.
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For the tranq shot, like you do in current Vanilla/classic. Most guilds only bring 2 anyway.
Each class still has utility, you are just giving people more options to who to bring.
I have always said Blizzard picked the wrong patch for Vanilla. This patch was just prior to BC where they messed up the balancing and ruined a lot of talent trees.
2.0 was the pre BC patch not 1.12. There were actually very few balance changes between 1.11 and 1.12.
this is false based on a few things
- wrath shows us that pures did suffer. warlocks and rogues in particular.
- when classes were being given better dps, utility was adjusted at the same time.
so your argument is a lie at best.
if you stick to classic design and all of a sudden a druid/shaman/paladin is doing roughly equal dps to a rogue or a hunter, why do i bring the rogue or hunter?
i have zero reason to do so.
you can sit there and point to wrath all you want, but until you point out the gains those classes got between the end of classic and what happened in wrath too, you’re not debating honestly at all.
false - hunters have minimal raid utility, just tranq shot. if a fight doesn’t require tranq shot, why should i bring a hunter over a druid?
and rogues in fact have almost zero raid utility whatsoever.
Because this isnt retail where you just swap out players, characters, and specs for every single fight. You literally bring the people you always do, because they have gear and people need gear to continue beyond that boss.
Technically paladins were used to maintain whelps or trash mobs in Onyxia et al. With a reflective buckler they were incredibly good threat holders for several mobs.
But yes, I agree. People have two weeks to decide on their classes, if you don’t like being in the back and a support class, then play a primary class, or play retail and be a hero. Some people like being supportive without having the responsibility of being a critical point in the group to be blamed when things fail.
Not really, if certain pure classes saw a drop in representation that’s too be expected if there are more viable options so that in and of itself is not a problem and no classes were straight up excluded like hybrids were in vanilla and how some people claimed they would be.
And no wrath did not see a drop in utility, this was still pre Cata where pruning started so everyone had all their utility.