Why do people expect a massive fall off?

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
483

Overwatch is definitely not balanced.
Hearthstone is DEFINITELY not balanced.

I’ll only give you Starcraft because you are balancing THREE things. Retail is IMPOSSIBLE to balance because every year they add a new class, new talents or some major number crunch to the game that would make it impossible to keep up with.

Blizzard’s original intention for vanilla is correct. There is balance, maybe not the balance that you WANT it to be, but it is balance through cooperation.

It respects DND rules and the holy trinity, mages / rogues are glass cannons. Warriors are hardy and hit hard, but can’t heal. Paladins are hardy and can heal, but can’t do much damage. Hunters have ranged and a pet, but are squishy if caught. Druids have mobility, healing, and stealth and are vulnerable in human / cat form (DPS form) just like mages and rogues, but hardy in bear form. Priests are cloth and should be protected, but have ways to stay alive, healing, fear, and shields. Etc. Etc. so on and so forth. There is no balancing that needs to be done in classic, and there are no changes that need to be done to classic.

Full stop. If you want constant updates then play retail, everything you want is already there. Allowing one change (which honestly this patch already dumbed down vanilla from what it was originally) is a slipper slope that led us to BFA.

484

is it though? FF14 seems to be doing better. furthermore retail balance is a joke and everything is homogenized and not fun.

not balanced in the slightest.

and not even close to balanced.

485

Like in TBC? That was awesome, every class and spec had a niche they filled and it was useful to bring one of every spec. Current retail where you can probably get away with a raid with all of druids or some nonsense.

486

TBC had its issues but imho it had the best balance of “NOT HOMOGENIZED” and “EVERYONE IS DECENT”.
that said, TBC style design would not work in classic based on the pure fact that you don’t have tier sets on a per spec basis in classic.
the goal of “potential” updates to classic should be to maintain the spirit of vanilla.

487

PvP will never be balanced in WoW because you are entirely correct there are a huge number of variables compared to an RTS or MOBA.

But PvP has always been a side game in WoW even when they tried to make it an esport and it doesn’t really matter if it’s balanced. PvE on the other hand can be balanced and indeed should be as this is a PvE game.

Yep the intent was correct, the implementation left a lot to be desired. And blizzard themselves realized this and worked on it during vanilla. 1.12 balance was better than launch because of that but still left a little to be desired which wasn’t addressed for a couple more expansions.

488

Actually, druids are viable tanks in Vanilla, they can produce more threat and are easier to gear fully. Because of their high armor rating, crits and crushes do not matter nearly as much as they do against a warrior. I actually like the fact that they are viable tanks, it means more diversity in the raid, warriors do not have to compete with 6 other warriors for the same gear, they can compete with say 4 warriors for tanking gear and 2 druids get their gear.

489

Oof, a lot to unpack here. Alright first, Enhancement shamans were GREAT in vanilla. Equip yourself with an arcanite reaper and get a good string of windfury crits and you were one shotting mages. As a mage, I have no problem with this.

Elemental shamans were fine, they pulled DPS and they did what they were supposed to do, in the holy trinity rule they were SUPPORT, they pulled good DPS and provided solid totems / off healing to the group. If you want to be a hero, again, play BFA.

Ret paladins also, they are support. I don’t expect ret paladins to top the chart and they shouldnt’ expect themselves to either. They are designed to support through buffs, off healing, and utility (BOF, BOP, DI etc.)

Balance druids are GREAT in raids, they provide solid DPS, and an amazing 3% crit aura (as well as off healing) don’t understand what the issue is here.

Tank druids did fine, they were almost always off tanks, which is what you can expect from a utility class. Warriors are DESIGNED to be tanks, it is one of their main specs. If you play a druid you know you are going in as a support / utility.

Everyone SHOULD be able to agree that when the optimal raid composition includes 25 of the 40 spots in the raid going to Warriors, changes being needed is an understatement.

I have never seen a raid that never had an equal make up of 5 - 7 of each class. We never stacked 25 of the 40 spots to warriors, either you never played in a raid and you’re making this up, or your guild was really bad.

Vanilla raids were easy by modern standards, you could clear them easily with a raid of 30 players

Solidifies my earlier point, ABSOLUTELY NOT. You could NOT clear with only 30 players, even if they were in BWL / AQ 40 gear. You are making this up. To say they’re easy is laughable, C’THUN and NAXX were the hardest bosses this game has ever produced.

This is why Warrior will almost certainly outnumber every other class in the game. They were literally the -only- class in the game that was an actual class design success.

Again, this is your opinion. Warriors will not out number other classes, as has been shown by leveling charts. A significant portion of the WoW community doesn’t want the difficulty of leveling a warrior without healing or the responsibility of tanking.

Rose Colored Goggles.

Kettle, black.

490

The only people saying this are the ones who can’t admit they were wrong about classic not being released. This is their only way to cope with that.

491

Can’t wait until posts like these go quiet when classic comes out lol

492

go ahead. show me how to make these work without homogenization, keeping to the spirit of vanilla, and without having a severe impact on other classes.

good example
if hybrids are doing comparable dps to a hunter, why, other then the few fights where i require tranq shot, should i bring a hunter over a druid or shaman?

493

Exactly, you understand going into your class that it’s a support class. If paladins were the best in ret, the best in healing (which they were pretty damn good), and the best in tanking, there would be no point in stacking your group with anything but paladins and ranged DPS.

The class design gives a fair environment to allow EVERYONE to play as a community. Concessions were always made in vanilla to allow people to play off spec if it benefited the group as a whole.

Shadow priests for example, they provided solid off healing and good DPS, and were often used to tank

494

Well you could easily keep the spirit of vanilla in future content, and just have gear sets have the correct stats and set bonuses to make classes viable and add them to new dungeons/raids. Possibly make parallel raids to the main line to have a “off spec” tier 1,2, and 3 set. Or just have it continue beyond naxx and add them there.

take Prot Paladins for example, add defense rating and health to a set of gear, then have the set bonus add a taunt to Exorcism that effects everything but still only damage undead, paladins fixed and viable.

It doesn’t even have to be full armor sets, it can just be single items such as a Libram or a totem or a small 2 or 3 set item bonus.

Stuff like that, easy.

495

but see thats the problem. vanilla wasn’t about spec based set bonuses at all. that’s the type of thing i am talking about. you’re now venturing into bc style design.

496

MC is beatable with less than 40 people 1.12, they dont need to be geared either

in this patch geared for MC means being a warm body at 60

497

Have you looked at Tier 3 at all? are you really going to tell me that warrior tier 3 is viable for specs other than prot or shaman T3 is viable for enhance?

You are flat wrong on that one. Spec based sets are intrinsic to vanilla

498

MC was more about learning raid mechanics than anything IMO. It’s a starting point. It never required everyone to be super geared.

499

that’s my point though. classic design is not bc design. the goal of any “additions” to classic should be to be like classic. adding spec dependent gear is not classic design.

all the tier gear is usually designed around 1 spec each. so unless you’re new raids are going to be sets for 1 spec, then no, i would not be in favor of adding new stuff.

500

Well since this moved to a balance discussion, lets look at it for a second
Classic / Vanilla has the following
3 healing classes - druid/paladin(shaman)/priest
2 Tanking classes - druid/warrior
5 Damage classes - rogue/warrior/hunter/mage/warlock

It was always like this and wouldn’t have been an issue in vanilla if (and this is a HUGE if) Blizzard at the time corrected the description of the classes. I remember when I rolled my paladin back then I went that way because it said i could do 3 roles… nothing about I could do 3 rolls 2 of them barely and 1 of them very well.

Classic players now know what those classes can do prior to creating them and or not getting false advertisement. So in my opinion if you roll a druid/pally/shaman and cry cause no one takes you into a raid as DPS, then that’s your fault.

Myself i’ll roll my paladin quest to 60 as hybrid healer/tank/dps then at 60 i’ll dress in heals and heal when raiding… I know what i rolled, i’m fine with it. And everyone at this point should be fine with what they roll and not whine.

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501

Assuming people would prefer to do world quests over playing Classic lol.

502

i mentioned it because there is a lot of talk about pre raid bis. its a waste of time unless you just want to

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