Let me make this plain as day:
SLAVERY IS NEVER OKAY.
ANY EXCUSE YOU MAKE TO ENSLAVE SOMEONE IS ALWAYS WRONG.
ALWAYS.
EVERY SINGLE TIME.
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It was not slavery, the Horde slaughter an entire continent, they got locked up for it and forced to worked(and even then most of them did not work and were suffering from Lethargy, which some Alliance did want to cure) because of a GENOCIDAL CRIME they committed. Which again is penal labor, not slavery.
I would also point out the daughter of the king who allowed said gladiatorial matches is part of the Horde now, why don’t your drag your complain to her/the Forsaken in general?
I do think it is debatable. Was it meant as mercy? Yes, I can accept that. Depending on the conditions they live in, and the individuals themselves? That is where it gets foggy. Some of those orcs probably would have preferred death. Dying quickly versus wasting away from hunger or disease, or living as a slave? Very, very foggy.
See, Blizzard? THIS is how you do morally grey stories. Where there is no clear right or wrong answer. You CAN do it. At least, you used to be able to.
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The assumption is none of them preferred death. I mean, if that is all they wanted they could have tried to attack/be as violent as possible tp any guard and would have been killed on the spot.
Yes, it was.
Every time I think you’ve masked off, you one up yourself.
It’s mind boggling.
It was not. No more then say a criminal being forced to work.
THEY WERE FORCED TO KILL EACHOTHER.
Mask off Zerde is truly a terrible human being.
Holy hell.
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Blackmoore smiled. Surely that had broken the miserable creature’s spine. These fights weren’t neccesarily to the death- in fact, killing one’s opponet was frowned on as it reduced the pool of good fighters-but everyone knew that dying was a very real possibility ib the ring. Healers and their salves couldn’t fix everything.
Who’s lying now?
Also after rereading Lord of the Clans, it looks like he was the exception to the orcs being part of the gladiatorial ring and NOT the rule. Most of the orcs couldn’t fight because of the lethargy. Thrall had actually mostly fought HUMANS and an ogre.
Of course, most of the others that Thrall went up went up against were nothing more than humans. Some of the meanest, strongest, most cunning humans to be sure but human nonetheless. The other gladiators were all brutal, hardened convits hoping to earn their way out of prison by winning money and fame from their patrons. Some did, and earned their freedom. Most found themselves in just another jail, one with tapestries on the wall and women in their beds, but it was a prison nonetheless. Few patrons wanted to see their money-winners walk as free men.
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Gentle reminder that some people are seemingly okay with a demonically fueled race trying to wipe out the natives to make a new home for themselves, but god forbid they suffer any consequence for their actions.
Were the camps horrible? Of course they were. But what people like Greymane and the high elven leader wanted for the orcs, was worse.
Unsubtle reminder that telling lies burns you every time.
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Ah, yes.
Forcing your enemy to permanently paralyze another for your entertainment and pure enjoyment is so much more merciful than forcing them to kill eachother.
Zerde, get help.
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From what I understand, the US only abolished chattel slavery. That just evolved into the prison system we have now, where for-profit prisons are incentivized to be as full as possible, and laws that disproportionately target black people (not to mention cops themselves) scoop them up and put them to work because prisons aren’t required to pay a minimum wage. They also have ways to “encourage” you if you refuse, too.
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i can’t believe zerde’s defending the US prison system
jesus wept
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Debating about atrocities is always a slippery slope. It’s like debating whether chopping off 3 fingers is better than chopping off 4 fingers. Sure, it can be argued, but ultimately what’s the point?
Did the Orcs who murdered innocents deserve punishment? Yes.
Do they deserve slavery? No.
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And like, I mentioned that there were children who weren’t sapient when crimes were committed, but were forced to fight and kill (even Thrall killed an orc.). Like. Micah completely evaded that point, and Zerde might as well have celebrated it.
I don’t know many times I need to spell it out quite clearly that the camps were horrible before you grasp that I said they were horrible
Moving the goal post? Again, they were not being forced to kill and even more so, it looks like it was just Thrall doing gladiator combats and not orcs in general.
There are two things being argued here. That 1, prison labor is not slavery and the two are different. Which, while some debate on it, at least by US(and many countries laws) its considered distinct and still allowed to this day.
2, Do I think the US prison system should be improved? Of course, however forcing them to work to make up for there crimes seems fairly just as far as I am concerned, that if you do something criminal that you should be expected to pay for said crime. I would also point out that if anything is wrong with the US incarceration system, it is its “for profit” nature. That it should be totally under the US government control as oppose to corporations. Thus making penal labor be due to rehabilitation/punishment for crimes and not about being for profit.
Hell, we have California(you know were Blizzard is located), a relatively liberal state that seems to agree with such an assessment that penal labor is NOT slavery: https://calmatters.org/justice/2022/06/california-prisoners-work-involuntary-servitude/
And ultimately, the goal was always rehabilitation as oppose to permanent incarceration for the Horde.
Except it is not slavery. That even in modern times penal labor is not defined by major institutions as slavery.
For anyone arguing that the internment camps weren’t slavery; the lore says otherwise.
Millenias later, some humans were known to practice slavery on orcs and ogres[2] after the events of the Second War. Aedelas Blackmoore himself enslaved Thrall, the future warchief of the Horde.[3] The king of Lordaeron was aware of Blackmoore’s gladiatorial games and allowed them personally, as long as the royal coffers would see the proper percentage of his earnings.[4] The enslavement of orcs has been practiced among the internment camps, Lorin Remka keeping Greekik as her own personal slave while Lord Agrovane[5] bought Rehgar and used him as his gladiator. After the events of the Third War, few cases of humans using slaves remain. In the fallen kingdom of Alterac, Aliden Perenolde believed in slavery and sought to place the orc race back into chains[6] — to return, in fact, to the days of Alliance internment camps under Aedelas Blackmoore.
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Except the reference(Lord of the Clans) only has Thrall as the gladiator(as far as the book is concern, I do not see it talking about other orcs being used in the gladiatorial combat). And he also fought mostly humans in said ring.
Which again, was mostly composed of humans. Thrall seemed like he was the exception, not the rule because most orcs lost the will to fight.
Sounds to me like it was an underground deal/not something the Alliance higher up actually approved.
Again, this is more penal labor as oppose to slavery.