Well, yes, in a sense. But I was using the reference framework of our normal conception of upper, middle and lower classes. The intention was to say there is not a laborer/peasant class in Quel’thalas, as arcane innovation does the work one expects to see that segment of civilization do.
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All civilizations have a lower class, that’s inevitable. Manual labor must be performed, resources must be gathered, whether that be stone, wood, or food.
So yes, Quel’thalas would have absolutely had peasants doing that type of work. They wouldn’t have the same standard of living as say, a human peasant, but they’d still be of a class lower than your average merchant and definitely lower in stature than your upper class noble.
That is what arcane golems are for. And self swinging pick axes, and self sweeping brooms.
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The arcane golems were used peacekeepers, defenders or sometimes public announcers. You are right about the magically enchanted tools though. That eliminates ‘some’ need for manual labor, but not all, and there would still need to be ‘someone’ maintaining the spells to ensure the tools did exactly what they’re supposed to, when they’re supposed to.
So cleaning would be something done by magic.
As for swinging pickaxes, that seems to be a ‘new’ thing and not something the Elves were doing before. I say this because the first time we see magically moving pickaxes is in Dragonflight, and our first experience with them is ‘testing prototypes for the Dragonscale Expedition’.
If Quel’thalas had already mastered the spells for tools of that nature to do what they do, I don’t think we’d be testing prototypes for the expedition.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Worker_Mo'rrisroe https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Jero'me
There was a laborer. Also, the arcane golems sometimes carried heavy stuff as a labor machine. This was unlikely in BC given that the blood elves were in a rough spot and moved towards a totalitarian police state.
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without magic yes, but the most dutys a lower class would do is performed by magic in qt.
The Alliance needs to have an antagonist leader. The Horde had both Garrosh and Sylvanas.
They could go in a “zealot” direction with Turalyon, trying to subjugate every mortal on Azeroth to the Light by force. The Void Elves being the “rebels” similar to the Darkspear Trolls when Garrosh was the antagonist.
Both factions need to be morally grey and have antagonist leaders for the story to be interesting. Nobody wants shallow black and white storytelling. We are starting to see it get better regarding that with the direction they are going with the Titans.
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I don’t think the Alliance being antagonistic is going to solve the narrative issues for the Horde. It’ll just go back to the writers making them “oh look at how good they are at warfare” rather than focusing on their cultural elements and their connection to Azeroth.
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Just giving the Alliance a ‘bad guy’ won’t change anything.
Not that I am opposed to it, but it needs to be handled carefully, avoiding any racist/fascist themes entirely.
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The ship has sailed IMO. BfA was the time for a more aggressive Alliance - it’s how they sold the expansion to us - but they didn’t have the stones to follow through, electing to recycle another “evil Horde” arc instead. It wouldn’t work anymore. The Alliance has exactly three warmongers left, and two of them are so justified in their hatred of the Horde that deposing/raiding/killing them for it, as Alliance fans tend to forget were the fates of their Horde counterparts, would be obscene no matter their obligatory war crime.
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The big thing for Trolls and Tauren seems to be a ridiculous sense of loyalty to “Thrall’s Horde” since he saved their people initially.
Personally I think that’s stretched entirely too far. The dude stepped down ages ago. He installed a tyrannical dictator who wanted war with the entire world and screwed over his own people. Loyalty to Thrall? Sure. To the Horde that was left after he stepped away from it with a time bomb attached? No.
Post-WotLK Horde sucks.
Oaths of loyalty and the deeds that inspired their swearing are not easily broken or forgotten.
Most of the Darkspear Trolls alive today would have been alive (or very young) when Thrall and the Horde saved them from the Sea Witch that would have killed all of them. Most of the Bloodhoof Tribe alive today would have been alive (or very young) when Thrall and the Horde saved them from the Centaur.
So as a result of that, they are all very loyal to the Horde and they respect Thrall and what he accomplished. Yes, he stepped down and appointed Garrosh as the new Warchief 16 years ago, but what Garrosh chose to do, doesn’t negate the oaths they swore or why they swore them.
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The rebels chose morality over loalty. They can’t be salvaged. The Horde died the minue the council was formed.
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I just want Blizzard to stop pretending things they do are OK.
In cataclysm, I was presented with a quest where the NPC wanted to me to kill Goblins just because his son was killed in a battle set up by a Goblin. I simply wasn’t going play my character killing people just because they were born the wrong race.
If they want the Alliance to be good guys, then they should have had them only do good things. If they really wanted morally neutral, then they need to stop selectively ignoring the moral implications of what they do.
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Can I ask why genuinely they need to be avoided? Garrosh literally was shown to be an orc supremacist kicking out a majority of the other races in MoP. I think it’s perfectly fine to show racist/fascist themes in the game as long as it’s clear that they’re not good traits to have. It’s time to stop pretending the alliance is a beacon of goodness and one of the alliance’s sins is that many of their races are racist towards certain races and we should not pretend like that isn’t the case.
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Racism/fascism is extremely difficult to ‘get right’, meaning to have it handled in a way that allows the story to move forward while not creating a giant mess within the community. It’s also peak lazy writing, because you don’t need to create motivations for the character to be evil, you don’t have to try to make us, as players, hate the character, you just have to press the ‘racist/fascist’ button and you’re done.
Any complex motivations or agendas are completely lost, because all people are going to see is the racist/fascist parts of the character. I mean, just look at Garithos. He was one of the first, truly racist characters that we saw in a Blizzard game, and does anyone really talk about his motivations? About how he wanted to restore Lordaeron? No. They just talk about how he was racist towards the Elves, Naga and Dwarves, and you either get people despising him for that, or saying he was right. Likewise with Garrosh, no one really recognizes anymore that Garrosh was a flawed character that was overwhelmed by the responsibilities he was given and lashed out in anger at those around him. Nope, they just know him for the genocide he inflicted on Theramore and how he treated the non-orc races of the Horde and folks will say that he either got what was coming to him (because of his racism/fascism/genocide) or that he ‘did nothing wrong’.
And those last few words lead perfectly into the next point, which is that unfortunately the WoW community does have an extremely racist/fascist element to it. Baal and I were debating that earlier in the thread. That portion of the community are extremely vocal in their harassment of players who are PoC or another minority. If Blizzard were to delve into racist/fascist character themes it would embolden these portions of the community and they would get loud, because Blizzard would be giving them what they want.
And I don’t think Blizzard should be amplifying racist/fascist community members by giving them what they want.
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Said goblins were helping Garrosh at the time. And while it was maybe a tad too violent, killing those goblins ultimately would have help the Alliance fight back against the Horde. You know, the same people attacking them and their night elven allies.
I have said it before and I’ll say it again. The Alliance are not angels. But they are better then the Horde. This is how that quest chain ended:
Very nice work, . I suppose there’s some strategic value in depriving the Horde of those minerals, but I’d have done it anyway just to crush those little green monstrosities.
Not exactly pleasant and while one wishes it was done not out of revenge still quite understandable and did have some strategic merit.
yea…I guess you’re right there. I remember when drac got opened as a race/class and we had a bunch of players roleplaying out their racism on rp servers. It’s a bit unfortunate that the playerbase isn’t mature enough for such a story.
Uh.
If Blizzard can tarnish and ruin the coolest organization for orcs in the Horde by turning them into the Schultz Staffel, they can do it to the 7th Legion.
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. The Horde needs a legitimate reason to dislike the Alliance. Something that can’t be explained away.
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