Why do Horde races want to be in the horde?

Lore Story Forum
486

It does feel like blizzard are trying to capture the lightning in the bottle which made that original horde campaign in war 3 so good. However they are not only failing to do that but burying the horde deeper and deeper under mountains of crimes and hypocrisy they can’t dig themselves out of.

whereas the alliance is a shadow of its former self as well as we are give “high kings” to take over which prevents the alliance acting like anything but an empire that can do no wrong under someone like anduin.

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487

I find that its best at least in regards to roleplay to distance my characters from all kinds of faction nonsense the best I can. The same way I treat Shadowlands basically.

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488

It’s not idiotic because the information they at least had was grounds enough for it anyways. They invaded a planet and declared war on every kingdom on the continent, enslaved the red dragons, summoned demons, stole the demon soul, and created death knights. The War ended and portal got closed. Simply based on that they deserved to be imprisoned. Their history before invading Azeroth only solidifies their imprisonment further.

As I said earlier, it’s like arresting someone for murder. You don’t automatically assume that it was just the one time and they won’t do it again. You put them in jail. You are then further justified when you find 8 MORE bodies in their back yard, aka, everything they did before invading Azeroth.

But they weren’t stupid and saw how they acted, and what their magic did, and the obvious question of why they were invading Azeroth. You’re right, they didn’t know what they did before invading through the Dark Portal at the immediate time of imprisoning them, but you have to make some assumptions based on what you know of the enemy. I also find it hard to believe once they were captured that they didn’t interrogate a single Orc for some info.

No it’s not, they were still fresh in the camps by the time the Alliance invaded Draenor and found out everything, it happened literally the next year. Assuming the Alliance was 100% no info on what they did on Draenor, they still found out a year later. So the Alliance should’ve let them go initially and been like “Oh ****” when they found out a year later?

As I said, earlier, we’re talking about multiple medieval fantasy Kingdoms here. An enemy army imprisoned with free water, food, and shelter, funded by higher taxes on the Alliance to their own detriment. It’s literally the best the Orcs could’ve hoped for aside from actually being set free, which is a clown move, or giving them luxury penthouse suites in Silvermoon.

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489

They had no grounds to know about that information. No Draenei, Arrakoa or Saberon came with them, they didn’t sit down and have a chat with any Orcs about where they came from or what they did before. They didn’t send any scouts beyond the portal until after the Second War had come to a close.

They also had no idea what the Orcs did to the dragons, nor did they know about the demon soul. Demons and death knights though? That they knew about.

490

Mohenjo: only one single human being enslaved one single orc.
Kosh’harg: lol, no.
Also mohenjo: one single tailor in Silvermoon is indicative of the entire horde practicing slavery.

:dracthyr_lulmao:

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491

I’m talking everything they knew that happened on Azeroth.

How did they not know? They were riding them out in the open.

492

They knew the Orcs were riding dragons. They did not know that they enslaved them, nor did they know about the Demon Soul. That came much later, well after the Second War came a close. The Demon Soul did not become relevant until Rhonin discovered what the Dragonmaw were doing years later.

Here’s what the Alliance leaders knew about the Orcs and their Horde:

  • That they invaded through a portal and that their numbers consisted primarily of Orcs and Ogres.
  • That they razed much of the Kingdom of Stormwind and killed its King.
  • That they summoned demons and practiced necromancy by creating Death Knights.
  • That they had allied with the Forest Trolls and Goblins.
  • That they rode Dragons and commanded a powerful Navy.
  • That they were intent on conquest and would have razed Lordaeron to the ground like Stormwind had they not been routed.
  • That they were consumed by bloodlust.

That’s all they knew.

They did not know about the Demon Soul, how the Orcs managed to tame/enslave the Dragons so they could be ridden, or about their acts of genocide on the other side of the Dark Portal.

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493

Except those Leper Gnomes aren’t the only slaves. As I said before, there’s plenty of other Slaves in the Horde, they aren’t an isolated incident. You’re only talking about them because Silvermoon can have plausible deniability and you can use it against my noble argument. You’re not talking about the Kobolds, Molten Giants, Ogres, Gilneans, the lobotomy chick, or hell, even the Hobgoblins, who are usually treated as much, if not are actually slaves. Or all of the other slaves involved in Varian’s slave gladiator days.

Thank you for correcting me. Regardless, that’s enough info in my book to imprison them. As again, I don’t see another option that isn’t dumb or murder.

494

Imprisonment for those that were guilty is not the issue. If they were imprisoned, and imprisoned only, that would be fine.

But they were sold as slaves and the children of the Orcs, which includes those who were children when they were thrown in and those who were born in the camps, were also imprisoned, despite having committed no crimes.

Now arguing “But the Horde also committed slavery!” isn’t appropriate. It’s basically a form of whataboutism. Yes, members of the Horde had also engaged in acts of slavery (but not as official Horde policy) but just because the Horde is engaging in those actions post-camps, doesn’t make what the Alliance did in the camps acceptable.

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495

Have already pointed out there were no children in the horde outside thrall as they were all rapidly aged and fed demon blood by the shadow council. Those orcs who decided to get preggers in the camps are to blame if they had children in that situation.

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496

I only recall them aging those who were already decently close to puberty; young enough children were left alone. But that did take place back at the beginning of the Horde, and there were several more years until their invasion of Azeroth, there could have been a policy change as they became more and more evil. That said, I don’t think there’s any evidence they quick-aged literally every kid they had.

497

To answer the thread question; there are plenty of reasons why the Horde races would want to stick together.

The Horde is the faction that provided the Blood Elves aid in defending their homeland after Arthas, after Garithos, not the Alliance.

The Alliance attempted to sink the Bilgewater ship fleeing Kezan in an attempt to “leave no witnesses” after they accidentally got close to their attempted capture of Thrall.

The Horde is the reason why the Tauren and Darkspear both survived to the modern day. The Darkspear have been -thriving-, they’re one of the strongest troll tribes in existence.

The Horde was the one that took in the Forsaken after it was perfectly clear to the Forsaken that they were… forsaken by their once-living comrades for being undead.

Despite joining the Horde during the reign of one of the most tyrannical Warchiefs and being generally treated like trash by Garrosh, the Pandaren joined the Darkspear Rebellion and remained in the Horde after, meaning that the Pandaren were willing to give the Horde a chance after Garrosh, and they haven’t been treated like dirt since.

The Tauren have always held a blood oath to the Horde, but besides that; they’ve never been depicted as having an adversarial relationship with any of the horde races. They were the ones to convince Thrall to let in the Forsaken, there are plenty of Darkspear living in Thunder Bluff, they’ve always gotten along with the orcs as a whole, they don’t even have a bad relationship, or at least have never been shown to have a bad relationship with the Bilgewater Goblins or the Sin’dorei. Not that they really have any reason to dislike any of the races/organizations above, none of them have attempted to destroy Mulgore.

Compare this with the treatment the Alliance has given them? It’s poor. The Dwarves have defiled and destroyed Mulgore, in the eyes of the Tauren; they were scarring the Earth Mother. They’ve also wiped out almost entire tauren tribes in the past. The only race the Tauren in the Alliance has gotten along with would be the Kaldorei, and that relationship isn’t good enough for the Tauren to leave the Horde. It never was, their relationship is not as great as people think it is.

The Bilgewater wouldn’t be alive today were it not for the Orcs saving them from the SI:7/Alliance on the Lost Isles.

The Nightborne, despite popular opinion, is the literal anathema to everything the Kaldorei are about. They have almost nothing in common with the Kaldorei, they’ve always held more similarities to the Sin’dorei and it was perfectly logical for them to join the Horde. “We shall see where Elune’s wisdom guides us.” Good job Tyrande, Elune’s wisdom has guided them to the Horde. Guess that’s what you get when you compare the leader of the Nightborne/Nightfallen revolution against Elisande to Elisande.

This is getting long, so TL;DR: The Horde has every reason to stick together, there’s no reason for any nation to defect.

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498

I fully agree those who were enslaved shouldn’t have been. My argument is that a few corrupt nobles enslaved, what seems to be, a handful of them for their personal gambling habits. And that the entire Alliance shouldn’t be shamed for it.

The slavery argument can indeed be seen as whataboutism. But in the context of the Horde bringing up past grievances, and one of those grievances being slaves in the internment camps, it seems hypocritical to complain about a small minority being enslaved by drunk corrupt nobles who planned on overthrowing their own faction. While the Horde, at least in game, has multiple cases of slavery being active. It’s possible the Horde has outlawed it between the end of BfA and now, but we don’t know, or at least I don’t know. The only one I remember is Mathias confirms there are no more Leper Gnome slaves in Silvermoon now. But it all still happened at one point or another.

I agree it’s all bad. But one’s an ember from…is it 30 years ago or something? And one’s a bonfire, that as far as we know, is still burning.

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499

Was pretty sure the reason thrall’s parents left the Horde when they did was because Guldan wanted their child to feed blood and age him. I mean he probably targeted them knowing they would refuse and take their child so he could remove them as an obstacle.

I mean even then they had been doing this for some time, The actual defeat of the Horde probably meant alot of you Orcs were spared this fate. Sure they would have been locked up but they atleast didn’t lose years of their life and get drugged up by their own people.

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500

From my understanding the magical aging only occurred during the rise of the Horde on Draenor. It was not something done during the First and Second Wars, and it wasn’t even done to all children. Rehgar Earthfury for example was not magically aged, despite being a child during the First and Second Wars.

The only confirmed cases we have of magically aged orcs were Rend and Maim Blackhand and Garona.

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501

There were also at least 5 Frostwolf children who were aged in Rise of the Horde.

"Durotan forced himself to remain impassive while Kur’kul cast a spell on the five Frostwolf children. They writhed in pain, screaming and flailing on the earth as bones were stretched, as skin and muscle burst into unnatural growth. A sickly green line linked the children to the warlock, as if he was sucking the very life out of them. The expression on Kur’kul’s face was ecstatic. If the children were suffering, he most definitely was not. For an awful moment, Durotan feared the warlock would not stop at age twelve, but would continue draining life from the children until they were shriveled and ancient.

But thankfully, Kur’kul did stop. The young orcs— children no longer—lay where they had dropped the instant the draining had begun. For long moments, they could not be roused, and when they did, they wept, softly, breathily, as if they no strength left for anything else."

According to a forum post from few years ago, the warlocks specifically targeted children aged 3-5 as ages 6 and onwards were already training.

502

Right, so more children were aged, but it still only happened during the Rise of the Horde. It didn’t happen during the First and Second Wars. Meaning children thrown into the camps and those born in the camps didn’t get fast aged.

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503

Guldan wanted to do it to thrall so it was being done right up to the end of the 1st war, we don’t know if Ogrim doomhammer outlawed it when he took over from the shadow council.

504

Thrall wasn’t born until after Gul’dan had exiled the Frostwolves from the Horde. He was born in the Alterac Mountains.

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505

and?

/10charcters