Sadly true which I think is only going to drag the story down as the game was built around the conflict. If you take the Horde alliance conflict out of the equation the story is quite dull. Especially considering we have no decently established villains to deal with.
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It’s disappointing as a “good horde” fan because it feels like there’s a forever-disconnect between what the game shows and what it’s trying to say. There’s no disputing how bad the horde was in WC1-2, but once they finally came to be under the alliance’s power, the reality of how the internment camps went down should still be seen as abominable despite however well-intentioned Terenas may have been at the time he had them established.
People are quick to absolve characters like Genn because he didn’t approve of the internment camps, but his preference was to simply execute them all as if that’s supposed to somehow make him look better. But then you look into what happens in the story later and people easily come to the conclusion that if he had his way, his people would genuinely be safer and better off. And how do you argue against that?
WoW SAYS that Azeroth needs both the alliance and horde to survive, but what we actually SEE is that the horde contributes very little when it’s not being the outright villain itself. It SAYS the alliance is restrictive and unfairly judgmental, but we SEE them being accepting on an illogical level while the horde earns the hate it gets.
Which is where this thread comes from (since IIRC Treng told me he made it based off comments about this I’ve said in the past, although he took it a little farther than I intended); why would horde races want to stay in the horde after everything that’s happened? Because the game wants to say they’re a family. But what we’re seeing is that it’s an abusive one. People largely mocked Thalyssra’s reasoning for joining the horde when she said that the alliance seemed too stifling compared to the horde’s freedom, but she was functionally just citing what Blizzard still tries to advertise about the horde. It was laughable because we don’t see it.
So the horde’s advertised appeal is kinda stuck in the realm of the theoretical.
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Sadly so, I think part of the problem also lies in blizzards inability to actually get someone to write outside media about the Horde. They haven’t really developed any characters in outside of thrall in any other media and most of that coverage is a part of his life when he wasn’t part of the Horde. This also comes into the issue where whenever blizzard does eventually develop a Horde charcter they are generally put on the chopping block.
The Alliance on the other hand has most of is development or interesting elements relegated to novels. all of the excessive character development has led to the Alliance having an abundance of overly developed characters with superpowers and victories placed in books but never in game.
The alliance has gotten way too much exposure in the books, where the Horde needs that character development. It also doesn’t help that because most novels have alliance characters as the primary face the horde comes of generally as the villain in those as well.
Blizzards current book writer has far too much Alliance bias to write the Horde objectively without making them alliance adjacent characters either.
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Your mask fell off.
Projecting much, dread? Still havent answer what your position is regarding all the kids the Horde has slaughtered, particularly Teldrassil.
So again, if the Alliance is suppose to be punished/blamed for what happened to the orcs kids for the sake of justice, what exactly in turn should the Alliance do the Horde, after you know, them indiscriminately killing kids and the Horde rescuing child killers from prison like Saurfang?
Deflection. Classic Dreadmoore. 
Strawman fallacy.
Typical Zerde.
Still not answering I see. I suggest not throwing bricks in the very fragile glass Horde of the Horde.
The Horde are to blame for what the Horde did.
And the Alliance are to be blamed for what the Alliance did.
All grievances are valid. An Orc who endured or grew up in the camps can point the finger at the Alliance for their suffering in the same way that a victim of the burning of Teldrassil can point the finger at the Horde. No grievances are annulled because of the actions of the aggrieved faction. If Turalyon became a zealot despot in the next expansion and started putting Horde children to the sword because the Light demands justice, that would not invalidate any grievances from any victim of Teldrassil.
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And yet they are not equal. That pointing a finger at the Alliance for what happened to the camps fails to take into account that if they want to blame someone for it, the Horde should probably blame themselves. That they and their kids would not have been put in the camps if they did not collectively attempt to wipe out the world. And if they want to blame the Alliance for the mess up, they should probably start with their forsaken/blood elven allies. Who are equally culpable in the whole thing.
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They don’t have to be. This isn’t a competition.
A grievance is a grievance. They’re all valid. No one said anything about them being equal at all.
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Bingo.
Like I said, sub optimal reading comprehension at best, strawman fallacy at worst.
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There’d be no WoW if the orcs were executed. Duh.
But I do wonder how many of them would have preferred death to slavery.
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I think it is. Or more precisely, if the Alliance has to somehow own up/pay to all the evil it has commit. So should the Horde, and the price tag as we know is a lot larger on the Horde side.
There you are again, projecting. Again, what should the Alliance do to the orcs who killed children? Because a good chunk of them did/at this point even the new Thrall Horde has been party to such attrocities.
Presumably none of them. Considering aside from some high value targets like Doomhammer, all of those put in the prison were orcs that surrendered. Besides, most of them weren’t even made to work due to the lethargy.
Seems to me you were quite ok with the night elves losing stuff and you used the losses the Forsaken suffered as justification.
So again Dread, if the Alliance was to suffer for enslaving orc kids, what should the punishment be for the Horde who murdered them? Or do you support killing children?
Yes, the Orcs were put in camps for what THEY did, as the only other reasonable option aside from killing them all. Which you’d all be complaining about today if that happened, or maybe not because the Horde probably wouldn’t even exist if that happened.
Yes, SOME of the Orcs were enslaved for gladiatorial combat, by a few corrupt officials. Most were not, most had lethargy, from the demon blood they drank.
The camps and lethargy were the writer’s way of giving the Orcs demon blood rehab so they could become good guys in WC3 and WoW. For the Horde to exist today, the camps NEEDED to happen.
This is the Alliance’s half baked history of slavery. Now let’s look at the Horde’s.
Like when they enslaved Kobolds in Stonetalon Mountains.
Or when the Forsaken enslaved Gilneans in Emberstone village.
Or when they enslaved the Ogres in Blasted Lands.
Or when they enslaved Molten Giants in the Barrens.
Or when the Blood Elves enslaved Leper Gnomes in a sweatshop in Silvermoon.
Or when Varian, Valeera, and Broll were all gladiatorial slaves.
And if we’re talking about both factions before the 3rd War, which is what we’re talking about now, they also enslaved Alex and the red dragons.
So when grievances come up, the Horde should probably start looking at the list against them instead of the half baked incident that produced the modern Horde in the first place.
Quoting this because apparently it once again needs to be said smh
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I love how 10 or less of them were made to fight and now the entire Alliance condones slavery and is to blame and is the equivalent of the Confederacy. lmao
We have no numbers on how many were “enslaved” as gladiators, I’m being generous with my 10. In fact, from what we can tell it was mostly just Thrall. He mostly went up against human prisoners and animals. And we know most couldn’t fight because of the lethargy.
So this all seems like absolute nonsense to me and to further pin stuff on the Alliance, while the Horde is by far the bigger slave faction of the two.
Ironically if the Alliance had just killed the Orcs, which many here seem to think is the better option, the Horde might not have went on to enslave the various people it did.
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