really doesn’t,
you keep spinning it around in your head till it make sense.
Lol, wouldn’t matter to carhagen they’d just blame that all on guldan or something then probably go off on a tangent about the lightforged.
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It actually does. In fact it has more substance than yours.
You know, the person who believes that the moment a group does something bad that anything any other group did to them is somehow irrelevant and cant be used as criticism.
That is exactly the angle you’re pushing. Your claim is “Yeah the Orcs got imprisoned but their grievances don’t matter because some different Orcs treated prisoners poorly years later.”
Don’t forget your clown shoes and red nose on your way out.
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Yes.
Blaming the parent for the Alliance enslaving their children.
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No you want a double standard, you want the Horde to be able to brush aside any crimes or issues it has created onto singular entities. Yet in the same breath blame the alliance for any and all crimes committed by anyone sharing the same race on the Alliance side.
Again,anyone on the Horde is a hypocrite if the believe they are justified harping on about the injustices they suffered at the Alliances hand. When they’re own faction is inflicting those same crimes on others. Especially when the reason behind the Hordes incacaration was because they were mass murdering psycopaths hopped up on demon blood. The only reason the Horde is locking up anyone on the alliance side is because they surrendered or were captured civilians.
You want to blame the Alliance for the camps when those who created them and ran them are long gone(or forsaken). So either both sides have the collective guilt of anything perpetuated under the name Horde/Alliance or neither of them do.
Your reading comprehension is sub optimal.
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And the atrocities they continued to commit since then under several failed Warchiefs. I’m sure there are people in the alliance who think Maybe Genn was right all along considering what the horde had done since being freed from the camps.
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So what exactly do you think about Teldrassil, Theramore or Stormwind? If you think enslaving kids is morally wrong, how much worse are the Horde for murdering them en masse?
If you want a pound of flesh from the Alliance for what happened to the orcs slaves. Fine, I want my kilo from all the atrocities of the Horde.
I think the biggest issue is, horde atrocities are so far more numerous compared to the handful the alliance had committed that people will find anything they can to harp on.
Were the camps horrible? Sure, but they certainly pale in comparison the horrors the horde had and has continued to inflict on their enemies up until the end of the Fourth War
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LOL What? No.
I’ve never attempted to excuse the Horde or try to say they can’t be blamed for what they’ve done. What is this clown reply? All I’ve said is that members of the Horde who have been wronged by the Alliance can use those grievances at any time.
And you claim I’m trolling? Go back under your bridge.
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If I may say so, we’re all trying to rationalize events that occurred in the game’s history with real world ethics, morality, and pragmatism, but I’m fairly sure we can all agree that the writers and developers of the game were not considering anything close to the real world complexities that would go into any of the plot points we’re arguing about. The writers are worrying about how to fix their predecessors’ plot holes and the next quarterly stockholder report while we’re getting mad and whippin’ out Kant and Hume at each other.
What I’m saying is, before you go defending atrocities or accusing someone else of doing the same, consider the fact we have probably examined the morality of events in the lore way more than the writers considered when writing those events.
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You have attempted to twice disregard that the horde has also kept prisoners in terrible conditions, blaming it on Garrosh. I’ve also pointed out multiple other times horde has mistreated prisoners under thrall and Sylvanas and you have ignored them.
IF you want to blame the Alliance as a whole for all the Atrocities that occurred in the internment camps then the Horde also has to wear all the blame for how it treats its prisoners. As the Hordes crimes against its Prisoners are far more recent it would make them Hypocrites for complaining about the camps when they treat their prisoners worse.
Either the the Horde and Aliiance BOTH have collective guilt for how they have treated their prisoners, or they don’t. You can’t have it both ways.
Hell the last “living person” whose family ordered the camp is Calia Menthil, even most of the people who were actually stationed at the camps are probably Forsaken now. If any remaing living orcs who were incorrectly incacerated wants to complain about the camps his Ire should be directed at them.
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Garrosh was a member of the Horde no?
Also, you’re ignoring key context, where you blamed ‘Thrall’s leadership’ for the prisoners being kept in that state, and I correctly pointed out that it was Garrosh’s leadership, because Garrosh was in charge of the entire Northrend Campaign.
And I never said they shouldn’t wear the blame, you absolute spanner.
My point, my only point was that the grievances that the Horde have against the Alliance are valid and they can be brought up by those who suffered through that at any time, regardless of what other members of the Horde have done. Their pain is not discarded off to one side because of something that someone else does.
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My point is that he would be have to be pretty stupid to blame the current Alliance for those crimes. If we are looking at singular entites who had suffered, then we should also look at singular entities that are to blame and they are all dead and gone from the alliance.
If Mr Orc who suffered incarceration blames the current day alliance for his time in the camps he is a hypocrite as far worse things are going on in his own backyard. If the Horde as a whole is complaining about the camps, they are also a hypocrite as they are also committing the same crimes.
The only thing ill give you is if that Orc that suffered in the camps and was innocent of any crimes. However, when released didn’t join the Horde they have a right to complain but even then, he should be looking at the Forsaken and not the Alliance.
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The current ‘Alliance’ is the same Alliance as before.
It has not been that long since the Internment Camps were built and subsequently destroyed. The Horde that emerged under Thrall’s leadership has only existed for 20 years. The camp liberation started 4 years before that. The Orc children who were either thrown in those camps or born in them would be between the ages of 25 and 34 by the events of Dragonflight. The average Orc who fought in the wars would be around Saurfang’s age before he died, meaning still very much in their prime and not old and feeble (although some would be getting along in years like Drek’thar, although he was already a mature adult before the First War started.)
You’re acting like the internment happened generations ago, that no Alliance leader alive today is responsible for what the Orcs went through and that’s just not the case at all.
Anyone that was in the camps has a right to be pissed about it. Despite what Blizzard might have us believe, the Alliance can and has indeed done wrong & the Horde has indeed done good.
What the Horde stationed in the Warsong Hold… what orcs like Spiketooth and what have you have done, are ultimately irrelevant.
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Which Alliance leader is alive that had a say in the camps? Terenas is dead, Antionidas is dead, Varian is dead, Blackmoore is dead. Lordearon is the nation that ran the camps is dead or undead. So who exactly in the Alliance is too blame again?
If the Alliance bears the blame of people who are dead and gone for their supposed crimes, then so must every horde member bear the crimes for every horde crime both past and present. Which means every horde member bears the crimes of every genocide, warcrime and mistreatment of its prisoners.
Your still trying to justify your double standard and its pretty sad.
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Danath Trollbane was the original overseer of the internment camps, before Aedelas took over.
You’re not wrong but can you point to crimes that were committed to prisoners under his watch?
Why do Horde races want to be in the Horde?
“You don’t turn your back on family. Even when they do” - Dominic Toretto
Despite the story focus for Horde players as either villainous Warchiefs or Alliance sidekicks, we’re still family. Whereas the Alliance feels more like just, well… an Alliance.
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Really wish they would play up this angle a bit more but everytime different races become like family I.E Saurfang and Zehkan they go off and kill one of them. They really gotta develop up horde characters more.
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