You are actually wrong on that point. The Dark Portal fell year 7(and the beginning of the internment camp). Chronicles then talks about Thrall and how he freed his people in year 15-18 year, so about 8-11 years give or take.
And its not like the orcs, most them at least, were even forced to worked. Those who were the exception. Not the rule.
All of them.
There isn’t a race that’s a part of the Horde that doesn’t want to be a part of it. The most hesitant race of all of them was the Zandalari, but the Alliance saw to them becoming full members when we invaded their city and killed their King (despite the fact that at the time the Zandalari had not committed themselves to the Horde).
You could argue the Blood Elves were close to noping out, thanks to Garrosh’s choices as Warchief, since Varian was in talks to have them rejoin the Alliance, but Jaina made sure that didn’t happen either.
Ultimately the orcs don’t have grounds to complain about the camps based on how they treat their captured opponents. We have seen them use prisoners for gladiatorial combat, used as sacrifices and kept prisoners in pens with the pigs. We have even seen them pit captured mothers against one another with the loser’s child being killed if they lost.
While they shouldn’t be happy with the camps, they should at least see the hypocrisy about complaining about them with everything they have done in the past.
Luckily the game recognises this and doesn’t have orcs bring it up, its generally just a handful of players who harp on about them.
Innocent orcs were enslaved.
Children who had committed no crimes ever were enslaved.
Betathnblood’s mask off moment.
I mean… they do. The acts of the Orcs under warmongering leadership doesn’t wash away what the Alliance did to them in the Internment Camps. It’s not hypocrisy to bring it up as a grievance, although the Alliance can clap back with their own and point out the crimes committed by the Orcs under their warmongering leadership.
They literally had gladiatorial slave and kept prisoners in the pig pens under thrall’s leadership yet He is still a ruling member of their new “council”. You can’t complain about how inhumane something was yet be committing the same crime yourself.
Short of removing the children from their mothers (mothers who were also combatants during the war as well) there was no way to deal with that situation. If they were removed from their people, it would have been just as bad as leaving them in the camps. Ultimately its the parents fault for placing their children in that situation.
Garrosh’s leadership.
The Alliance prisoners in pig pens was something that only happened in Warsong Hold, and Garrosh was in charge of the entire Northrend operation.
Oh Garrosh did it as well, but Varian was kept as a slave while Thrall was warchief. Not to mention he was incharge when Sylvanas had Lobotomized slaves and people being experimented on with the plague.
and Blackmoore was also only responsible for a handful of camps, yet the Horde complain about the camps like it was the entire Alliances fault for how they were treated in a handful of them.
To Garrosh’s credit, keeping Alliance defectors in the pig pens was just an impromptu expedient because the hold’s actual prisons were full. And you’re given a quest to deliver them straight back to their officers on the blue team anyway.
Garrosh was the only person who kept Alliance prisoners in pig pens. Warsong Hold is the only place you can find Alliance prisoners being treated that way.
And if you talk to the NPC guarding them (who gives you one to take back to the Alliance) the reason why they’re being kept in the pig pen is because they’re cowards. Every single prisoner in those pens willingly chose to surrender to the Horde, because being captured gives you a one way ticket back home. Alliance soldiers were literally surrendering to the enemy so they could be ransomed back and go home so they didn’t have to fight the Scourge.
The difference there is that the Alliance paid for the camps and authorized their construction. They also looked the other way when reports of prisoner mistreatment came their way, giving Blackmoore a lot of leniency. Where as with Warsong Hold, there’s no ‘slave encampments’ built by the Horde. Just the cowards who surrendered being thrown in a pig pen until they could be ransomed back to the Alliance.
Again doesn’t really matter why they were locked up, If you treat you prisoners badly then don’t expect to get special treatment on the other side. Especially when those Prisoners surrender peacefully and hadn’t actively killed hundreds of your kind. VS thousands of Bloodthirsty Drugged up super strong orc’s that had just spent the last 10 years butchering every human they could see.
if you can’t see the difference, you’d be a hypocrite.
As others have pointed out the camps were built with the intent purpose to rehabilitate them not enslave them. Blackmoore was actively going against that and used the camps to make a personal little army of orcs and overthrow the Alliance. Any leneciy he was given was because of the strain the alliance was under trying to look after so many camps.
Oh Valerra, broll and Varian would probably disagree on there being no slaves in the Horde.
The next time someone accuses Horde posters of being the only ones who derail threads to make it “about them,” I’m gonna link to this thread.
Hey, the way the story is going the Horde/Alliance will probably dismantle and we will all join the Alliance2.0 superfriends following Anduin god Emperor.
The camps were never intended to ‘rehabilitate’ the Orcs. They were created to serve as a prison, where the Orcs would live for the rest of their lives in squalor, with no possibility of earning their freedom or being allowed to explore their own cultural roots again.
King Terenas Menethil II believed that the Orcs might one day lose their desire for bloodlust, but that wasn’t a belief shared by the rest of the Alliance, and the rift that formed over the Internment Camps (and the creation of Nethergarde Keep in the Blasted Lands) ripped the Alliance apart as it resulted in the High Elves of Quel’thalas, the Kingdom of Gilneas and the Kingdom of Stromgarde removing themselves from the Alliance, leaving the organization weaker as a result.
The best an Orc could hope for in the camps was to become a slave/servant to one of the commanders of the various camps or to be sold off as a slave to a noble family. This was what happened to Greekik, a female orc who was chosen to serve as Major Lorin Remka’s slave/cook, as well as Rehgar Earthfury (sold to Lord Agroval as a gladiator) and Burx (sold to a noble family to be a house slave).
But the rest of the Orcs? They languished in the camps until they died of sickness, old age or brutality. Even the children of Orcs that were born in the camps were not given any leniency. If Thrall, Orgrim Doomhammer, Drek’thar and Grom Hellscream hadn’t rallied the surviving Orcs who had escaped and broken the Orcs free and formed the New Horde, the Orcs on Azeroth would have eventually been wiped out.
They were also close to rejoining the Alliance in BC.
But then they figured out that the Alliance had sent spies, saboteurs and an invasion force rather than genuine negotiators and help against the scourge remnant and amani.
Ah so we are going for the circular argument then? Sorry not interested in spending all day doing this dance with you.
My Argument was that the horde continued abuse their own prisoners far worse than the Alliance had. Them complaining about their time in camps would make the hypocrites.
You simply want to spin it and make it sound like the Horde had it so much worse in camps.
My point still stands
I corrected your inaccurate statement.
You claimed the camps were there to rehabilitate the Orcs. They were not.
Even going back to my initial point, all I said is that the Orcs can object, because they can. There’s nothing stopping them, because the Alliance’s crimes don’t suddenly cease to exist because later on their own kind also treated prisoners poorly.
To use the real world for a second. The Japanese who were thrown into internment camps in America during WW2 have every right to bring up that grievance, even though the Japanese soldiers on the other side of the world were acting like monsters towards their prisoners. The crimes of the American government in imprisoning those Japanese-Americans (many of whom were American citizens) is not negated by what the Japanese soldiers did.
Issue with that analogy the orcs rounded up were the same ones who committed the atrocities, there were no “innocent orcs” they were all invaders. If they had children with them, the parents actions got them locked up with the rest of the orcs. The alliance had no other option as removing them from their families would have been just as bad.
My point stands.
The Orcs who were interred have every right to bring up that grievance. They were treated poorly and they can bring that up at any time. That includes the children who were imprisoned with their parents, and those who would later be born inside the camps.
Just because the Orcs treated prisoners poorly years later, that doesn’t make the grievances that the Alliance committed vanish.
You know why the original Horde did not treat prisoners poorly? Because they didn’t take any prisoners and killed anyone they could. Men, women, kids it did not matter. Everyone was killed off.
Edit: actually now that I think about it they did mention taking a draenei kid as a prisoner…only to sacrifice them to open the dark portal.