Why do Covenant Abilities/Restrictions remove player agency?

Do you have another example?

YOu mean you have to relevel to max level and also gear said class.

And the same can be done with covenants, relevel a character, gear them and choose the other covenant.

Not rly as I rarely check streamers and was only doing taht to watch Torghast, I didnt even need example to know that bad players are delusional enough to tell better players how to play, I knew that is a fact, but examples help people to understand things easier.

But once you’ve leveled that other class - if you ever go back to playing them, you don’t have to relevel them all over again.

You pick up where you left off.

Well you’re going to need more then one or two examples, cause it just looks like to me that your using a rare example that isn’t the norm as your only example to justify saying the things you do. It’s why i asked you if you have more then just 1. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

I never heard of this Scripe guy (cause i don’t watch streams) and as far i’m concerned, only you mentioned his name. Heck, i don’t care if the next example you got is the Kayne West of WoW. (i’l give you a hint, he has a beard and in as a special guest in one of nixxiom’s machinimas.)

pLaYeR aGeNcY = code for “let me do whatever I want”

Indeed, and you can do example the same thing if you have 2 different characters.

What you seem to be asking is to change covenants like you change specs. Of course that wouldnt achieve the goal of the current covenant system since people would just change to the best spec like some often do now instead of sticking to their original spec and getting better at it instead of going for the path of least resistance (and still performing badly)

Well if you disagree with the conclusion of such example I would say you do not have a good understanding of the gaming community and player behavior and I cannot give you that since that is based of someone’s personal analytical skills and ability to see things that dont align with the beliefs they want to believe in.

You didn’t include a link to his video or stream. And before you say “look it up”, i did, i can’t find the video in question or even some toon named “Scripe” cause you didn’t give me who never heard of him before enough tools to work with. Scripe isn’t as big as Swifty or Kayne West of WoW, or other big name WoW streamers that i barely knew about.

If you would’ve just said the name of the video, channel name and/or date he recorded, i would work with that. I’m not going to magically know what your talking about based off what you given to me so far, cause i never heard of the guy. I do know now from the comments of yours that Scripe is a Warlock and yells at people for telling him to follow the guide (which i didn’t even think there was a guide already for destro locks on Shadowlands Alpha), but that’s it.

Give me the tools so i can go understand it and then i’l come to a decision on whether or not i actually agree or disagree with your initial example. If not, then give me more example(s).

Yes because
a) I didnt expect there would be people so ignorant of this behavior to suggest I need to post a link otherwise I am lying
b) My goal was to use that example to get the point across, if someone isnt convinced by this then they already lack the analytical knowledge from the gaming community since one example wont make you realize the systematic problem you have clearly been blind to and seeing that one example would clearly not convince you of a systematic issue.
www .twitch.tv/scripe/videos
And I am not gonna link it mainly because it was in one of his torghast videos where he was playing a warlock, probably the earlier ones as I havent watched in some time and as you can see with videos lasting 4 or 5 hours I am not gonna be checking them simply so I can link you that one example. If you want to believe I am lying, feel free.

That actually would enough for me to check in this guy and this streams and see if anything scripe lines up with the example you made before i make a decision to explicitly agree or disagree.

“If you don’t make your groups the way I want you to, or if you don’t play the way I want you to, you need to leave” is ironically a more toxic statement than anything you would imply that I’d be doing by making my group the way I want to.

You dont improve a game by embracing toxicity, you dont tolerate the intolerant.

If I make a group for a dungeon that has 5 slots and I have 20 applicants and I don’t choose the 4 people you deem correct to choose, I’m being toxic?

There is a very big difference between choosing some people out of those 20 that you want to group with and the mentality “I refuse to invite X class in my m+ because I was told they are bad”

If you refuse to invite X class as a rule then yes, if you prefer a rogue for tol tagor for example then no, if you demand X class you invited to have X talent/covenant/build then yes.

So what you’re saying is, if I don’t select my applicants based on your selection process, I’m toxic?

He’s just salty

Considering you completely avoided to answer if you refuse to invite X class because you were told is bad as a rule or demand people to have X talent/covenant/build in order to keep in the group I would probably guess so.

I think you’re avoiding my own questions. If I make my own group, say I have a keystone and I’m making a group for it, your argument is that if I select what I feel is the best comp for that key, I’m toxic?

Regardless of the example and how you feel, it is my key, my group. Do I not have the right to make it how I want? If I have 20 applicants, 16 of them are effectively going to be declined no matter how I make my group. You telling me that I’m “wrong” for picking who I pick, or that I’m “wrong” for my reasoning behind picking who I pick is toxic.

Part 2:

So i did take a look at his streams to find the example your talking about…

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/599180297

9:01 he did make a comment about immoilateing one by one feels bad.

On 1:52:09, somebody in the chat they said “Immolate noon KEK”, so i don’t know whether they mean their ridiculing him for using it or ridiculing him for not using it and going off the guide. And that part of the video is muted due to copyright, I don’t read lips, but i can tell you right now, he doesn’t look like he was yelling at people.

3:00:58 He made a comment that people stopped (or Started) saying to use immolate, right before people started saying it, and two people on chat telling him to immolate, and he did that.

And there’s plenty of times i seen him Immolate.

And i didn’t find nothing much of note in https://www.twitch.tv/videos/599141327.


When you said “bursting out at some idiots” i assume you mean he’s yelling or giving an attitude at people who are telling him to use immolate. I’m not seeing any of that. Or if it is, it’s too calm to be “bursting at some idiots”.

I have actually tired to find this bursting, but i didn’t find him bursting at people.
Maybe theirs parts that i have missed here, and maybe you would be better served to input your own timestamps to better illustrate the example of scripe “bursting at some idiots”.


This has nothing to do with the point here, but Scripe is in Method. Now i have heard of the guild called Method, them being world first raiders and so on, and it does come to my attention that his videos on Torghast as a destro warlock doesn’t even get a thousand of views.

it’s just worth bringing up that for a guild that recognizable in WoW and even off WoW, and considering Shadowlands is in Alpha, which is the hot topic for the WoW Community, it just seems odd that this person in particular is has not really great view numbers. Which may contribute into why i never heard of this guy (and possibly many others, never heard of Scripe either).


But even if i do understand it, you just still have 1 example.

I asked you 2 very specific questions, you asked a very open ended generalized question wanting a yes or no answer so you can reply with a silly generalized retort.

If a mentality controls your choice I dont feel you would be as unbiased as a person who simply is looking for someone who will fit their key so the choice wouldnt even be yours per se, it would be the choice of the community perception of classes.

Give me specifics and your reasoning behind choosing X and declining y and I can answer you

He was not yelling or shouting like some mong streamers if that is what you were expecting, he raised his voice and his tone changed quite clearly and after that he quite clearly started angrily that you dont need immolate because he is already overcapping at shards due to infernals so immolate is useless and that “you dont know what you are talking about”, his attitude was quite clearly upset and I would assume that lasted for around 30-40 seconds overall, the part I am talking about i am 100% certain had him explaining why he didnt need immolate.

If I make my own group, I don’t owe you any explanation as to why I make the choices I make.